Re Wallerstein

linus nordström linusno at
Sat Apr 28 15:19:09 MDT 2001

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Xxxx Xxxxxx" <xxxxxxxxxx at>
To: <marxism at>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Re Wallerstein

> Hi Magnus..
> > >The special nordic model of the welfare state among other things have
> > >*universal* welfare goods. That means that everybody are entitled to the
> > >same health care / child support / pension rights / maternity leave. In the
> > >EU they to a larger extent have these forms of welfare according to labour
> > >and employment, which means that only those employed get pension rights,
> > >for example. Do you think it is moralistic to fight for universal welfare
> > >rights?
> of course not.. although I am not quite sure if in the nordic 
> model  everybody benefits _equally_ from "universal welfare goods". after 
> all, globalization must be downsizing the state and increasing class 
> divisions. I would, however, stress that the nordic model has been 
> relatively more successful in terms of subjecting the ruling classes to the 
> kind of material concessions you mention above (pension right, child 
> support, health care). Although I prefer a socialist welfare state to a 
> nordic one, your model is still preferable to US free market capitalism. 
> what are historical reasons for the success of nordic model from a class 
> perspective? and how is this changing recently?

yes, a socialist state is of course preferable, but right now it is a question to defend the bourgeoisie democracy, no matter how hollow it is it´s still preferable to the neo-liberal agenda of EU. EU are not an democratic institution, nether can it be made in to one. It is to thigh connected to the European monopoly-capitalist . of course the capitalist will still try to get there way trough, but it will probably not be as easy as it as a member of EU

> > >The question of EU / not-EU is not a question of, directly, socialism vs
> > >capitalism. It is, amongst others, a fight against the European
> > >super-state. It is against a common European fiscal policy dictated by
> > >Germany.
> Sure. I am quite uninformed about Scandinavian politics. who are the folks 
> in the struggle against Germany dictated EU in Norway ? what is their 
> specific policy agenda? I am asking to see _if _nordic social 
> democracy/socialism is converging or diverging with its continental and 
> British variants?
The social democrats in the Nordic countries are just as bad as there counterparts in the rest of Europe. The do not defend what they have been building, instead they are slaughtering it. Sweden has the "world record" in increasing the gap between the classes. the membership in the union makes it impossible to have any other politics.  But even if the social democrats have given up there "ideal" the Swedish working class still want it, but have not yet managed to form a strong opposition against the politics of today's Sweden

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