The EU question
gschofield at one.net.au
Mon Apr 30 19:10:30 MDT 2001
At 01:25 30/04/01 -0400, you wrote:
> Greg Schofield wrote:
> > The EU is above everything else a result of geo-political pressures that
> > have been with Europe for a long time. In fact, if proletarian socialism
> > had spread through Europe before-hand an EU type resolution would be
>Do you really beleive in this?
Well yes I suppose that is why I wrote it, but I do not think that you have
read it very well based on the rhetorical questions you raise.
>Which geo-political alternative is EU
>offering? any evidence for this?
Frankly I don't understand this at all - "alternative" - I said it was a
result if long term geo-political pressures - I should now add mostly from
within Europe, but I could simply refer you to Engels' writings (letters to
F.Sorge are pretty revealing). In a nutshell the division of Germany
neutralised it as a military power long enough for a true pan-european
economy to emerge - the EU is simply the recognition of that existing economy.
>or any proloterian socialism EU can offer?
Again I don't understand the import of this. I would have thought that if
the clock were rewound back and proletarian socialism had swept across
Europe than some of the aspects of the EU would have followed fairly
swiftly. I don't consider this to be a very controversial statement.
>that EU can build an alternative hegemonic block to US is just a dream,
>which has very little empirical and historical support.. EU is a *mini*-US
>with an explicit agenda of regional neo-liberalism and humanist
>imperialism. This dates back to Marshall plan and the idea of united Europe
>against the communist block. Now the same old social democracts, greeens
>and progressives have joined the US crusade in the bombing of Serbia, and
This is just silly comrade, where did you get this from? Nothing I said
suggests this, though strawmen are notoriously easy targets to argue
against. If you think the main tenets of the EU stem only and directly from
the Marshall plan, well that seems to ignore a lot and make everything the
result of US Foreign policy.
>Indeed you and Julio sound like Tarik Ali who feels "nostalgic affinity for
>the European bourgeoisie"...european exceptionalism is just unrealistic at
European exceptionalism where was this mentioned! Look comrade blowing
things out of proportion, assigning other arguements to those that have
been actually raised may pass for polemic these days but it hardly is
useful by any other measure.
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