Mark Solomon: racism and democracy are fundamentally incompatible

Brian James hillbily at
Mon Apr 2 15:44:51 MDT 2001

I haven't been reading much biology lately, however I find your
interpretations of whatever you've been reading lately to be highly problematic.

Inbreeding means breeding with close relatives. Most human societies
throughout history did not do this, they had a taboo on it and practiced
what anthropologists call exogamy, marrying outside the clan or
community. Nevertheless, these groups would have continued to be what
you call "racially pure." But there is more than enough genetic
variation within a broad population of a racial type to ensure against
genetic deficiencies. Indeed, the Human Genome Project has recently
announced that there are in some cases more genetic difference within
racial categories than between them, and that there is no basis in
biology for racialist theories.

If there is a proven tendency for more of a genetic illness within one
group, say Caucasians, this would be because it gets handed down in an
isolated setting, not because of "racial purity." Lets not confuse
causes here. Yes, the genetic flaw may dissipate by racial
interbreeding, meaning that the gene will be less likely to occur or be
active in the offspring. But this merely means you've bred with someone
who doesn't have the gene, not that interbreeding is healthier per se.
The example of Newfoundland is a case in point. No defective gene
introduced; no problem.

I sense there is truth in what you're saying, but there is a problem in
how you say it.


Original Message:

This is the reason incest is bad: it joins
> two people with similar immune systems and the offspring has a weak immune
> system. This is how the pharaohs of Egypt lost ther power; they became
> trying to keep their race pure by marrying only brothers and sisters.
> Eventually, after generations, these 'pure' races become infertile.

This is a turned around version of the kind of folkloric nonsense that
leads to racialist theories.

VANESSA: you haven't been reading a lot about biology lately, have you? Did
you know that inmunology agrees with everything I said? Empirically, not

>Firstly, "inbreeding" and racial "purity" are very different things, the
>one bad the other meaningless; but they are confused in your analysis.

VANESSA: Really? What makes you think that inbreeding and racial purity are
different? They are the same thing, levels of inbreeding can be different,
but racial purity is biologically the same as inbreeding.

"Thirdly, the USA is probably the most racially mixed country in the
world, a melting pot of European, Latin American, African, Aboriginal
and others."

VANESSA: Of course, and infertility is not common in minorities, but in
those of mostly European ascendancy. Saying that a country is  a melting pot
has nothing to do with the individuals in that melting pot being all
racially mixed.

 Miscegenation is on the rise. If there's a fertility problem
it must come from some other cause. By comparison, the province of
Newfoundland, on the far East Coast of Canada, is one of the most
genetically "pure" populations of "white" people in the world, due to
historical isolation and almost exclusively British heritage -- so much
so that its people have recently become the subject of extensive genetic

VANESSA: It is quite possible that they had the luck of never having a
defective gene introduced into their population, and there is the
environment thing: surviving in a harsh environment for many generations
practically eliminates genetic problems.

 "However, there is *no* fertility problem amongst Newfoundlanders, nor is
there an immunodeficiency problem. Your theory is nonsense."

> Latinos may be the population with the strongest immune system.
Infertility is
> practically unheard of here! We equalize races because we ARE a mixture of
> races! Well, I am mostly caucasian... but then, I also have epilepsy;
> is something wrong with my genes. BUT, the truly mixed latinos have very
> genetic diseases and very strong immune systems. Imagine how healthy they
> would be if they had more food and a better lifestyle!

You have epilepsy because you are "mostly caucasian?" I am all caucasian and
I don't have epilepsy, or any other "genetic" illnesses. And my sperm count
is just fine.

VANESSA: YOU are only ONE individual, I am speaking of populations. As a
populations, whites have the most genetic problems, mostly minor, such as
nearsightedness. And non-white populations which have been isolated and
therefore, their race is 'pure' also have problems. This is why there is a
project going on right now to collect genetic information from all isolated

I thought epilepsy was caused by scar tissue on the brain. At least
that's what they said about my Caucasian friend who had it.

VANESSA: Just because you know the cause of ONE individual's epilepsy
doesn't mean that is the cause of all. Epilepsy is a SYNDROME not a specific
illness. Your friend's epilepsy is not idiopathic epilepsy; scar tissue
causes seizures, and those seizures have a specific cause. Idiopathic
epilepsy has NO evident cause. If your friend's epilepsy is caused by scar
tissue, then obviously it cannot be genetic; it is caused by brain damage,
and none of the things I have said about epilepsy here apply to him. There
are thousands of different types of epilepsy, but the list moderator had
already said that it is not a proper topic to discuss on this list, so I
expect that if anyone else wants to discuss this with me, that you will do
it privately. And you are welcome to write to me about this, too, Brian:
jajeji at

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