Was: Spy plane crisis ; now Zionism = ?

Craven, Jim jcraven at SPAMclark.edu
Mon Apr 16 15:55:12 MDT 2001

Mine wrote:

 [snip] On Sunday, I
attended Finkelstein's panel on "Holocaust Industry and the exploitation of
Jewish suffering". Although I had some sympathy with Fink before, I
developed the feeling during the panel that he went overboard with many of
his assessments about Jews, and deserved a reply from me. I asked him if it
was politically correct to reduce Jewish suffering to a bunch of  American
Jewish elites trying to take advantage of Holocaust through reparations. I
further said that not all Jews are Zionists and one should make a
distinction between _bad use_ of reparations and Holocaust, AND THIS
NATIONALITY (blacks, Palestinians, American Indians, etc..).

Response (Jim C) I think Mine makes an extremely important point here.
Although the nazi holocaust has been misused and exploited by Zionists and
Jewish "chauvinists/exclusivists" for their own narrow, hegemonic and racist
purposes, one should never leap from that fact to another form of Holocaust
denial (diminishing the real suffering and slaughter of Jews and/or
diminishing the sufferings and slaughter of other victims of the nazi
holocaust) or giving any aid and comfort to those who profess "anti-Zionism"
but are using anti-Zionism as a cover for neo-naziism or anti-Jewishness
[anti-Semitism in the vernacular) or perhaps even some anti-Jewish Jews.

I am [finally] reading Robert Jay Lifton's "The Nazi Doctors" which on the
one hand is interesting and useful in some respects, but on the other hand,
makes NOT ONE, I mean NOT ONE reference to American Indians (he does refer
to the Turkish fascists and the genocide against Armenians). He goes so far
as to suggest that only one real Holocaust--or worthy of being called a
Holocaust--occurred--the nazi Holocaust; and he goes on to mention that as
Jews were singled out ins special ways, Jewish victims of the nazi Holocaust
therefore deserve special mention. No mention is made of the fact that
Hitler's inspiration, or one of his major inspirations, as revealed in his
own recorded words, inspiration in terms of the "imperative" for mass
exterminations as well as inspiration even on "efficient" methods of mass
extermination, was the U.S. and Canadian histories of mass extermination of
Indians (Hitler used to read a lot of "Wild West" novels of Karl May).
Although Lifton mentions the early "pioneering" work in "Eugenics" and
sterilization in the U.S. (with which the Bush family has been associated
for many years), he never mentions that Indians were the early targets of
forced sterilization (this continues even today) and that 25 States had laws
that allowed and encouraged it.

I was recently in a forum on the Middle East and had been invited by some
Palestinian friends to speak on the parallels between American Indians and
Palestinians. There were some hard-core Zionists on the panel and I knew
they would play the "Holocaust card" from the git go. I noted that in view
of the fact that the history of extermination of Indians in the U.S. and
Canada was a major inspiration for Hitler, and therefore (and for other
reasons) no Indian should ever be in sympathy with any anti-Semitism
(anti-Jewishness) or into [nazi] Holocaust denial in any way. But, as with
the Palestinians, Indians know well, and have heard often, the arrogant and
racist slogan of the Zionists: "A land without people for a People without a
land" (As if there were no indigenous inhabitants and/or as if the
indigenous inhabitants were not people).

But I took a different tack. As they were attempting to plant the notion
that Zionism = Judaism and "therefore" any self-professed "Anti-Zionist" is
in reality a covert (or perhaps overt) "anti-Semite", I posed the following
questions: What kind of real Jew, or real Jewish state, would sell cluster
bombs to and train the security forces of, the fascist Pinochet government
of Chile, and, in addition, while the chief internal security advisor to
Pinochet was none other than Walter Rauff, wanted and sentenced to death in
absentia as the architect of the early mobil gas vans used to kill Jews and
non-Jews? What kind of real Jew or real Jewish state would collaborate with
the Apartheid Government of South Africa (whose members included creatures
interned during World War II as members of the nazi party) to build nuclear
weapons?; What kind of real Jew or real Jewish state would arm and train
known death squads (led by known and open neo-nazis)in El Salvador,
Guatemala and elsewhere, or, what kind of real Jew or real Jewish state
would arm--and train on the same base in Israel--BOTH the Sinhalese and
opposing Tamil Tigers from Sri Lanka locked in bloody and sustained
conflict? I also got into some history of early Zionists collaborating with
nazi SS to do espionage against the British ("the enemy of my enemy is my
friend" forms of opportunist and unprincipled logic). What kind of real Jew
or real Jewish state differentiates and even rank-orders (as precisely the
nazis did) human beings and victims--victims of the nazi Holocaust (into
Jews worthy of special or sole mention and other non-Jewish victims not
worthy of mention at Yad Vashem and at the Holocaust Museum in Washington,
D.C.)--or indeed engages in another more popular form of "Holocaust
denial"--denial of other Holocausts and other victims and their own

Then I asked what kind of "Jewish" state talks about fellow Jews when it is
convenient, but then again is heavily influenced by branches and sects
(Hassidim, Orthodox and Conservative) that view over 70 percent of the
population  not to be "real Jews"--Reform Jews, Secular Jews and non or
selectively observant Jews? As noted by Louis, in his missive "A Real Jew",
I noted that "real Jews" have historically been in the forefront of
progressive causes and have given their lives to save non-Jews and to fight
against various forms of despotism, and those "real Jews", and real Judaism
itself, would never countenance rank-ordering of human beings or holocausts
into "worthy" and "unworthy" of mention, tribute and concern.

The super-Zionists went crazy over this approach; especially when I
mentioned Israel Shahaak, a victim of three of the nazis worst death camps
who has openly said that Zionism = naziism and NOT Judaism.

Jim C

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