V1 #3194 'Z' and Christianity
stewsinc at SPAMeol.ca
Sat Feb 10 21:37:05 MST 2001
The comment on Z and Noam Chomsky is very timely. I did not realize up to
now, that he had such a craven and treacherous position on the Serbian
situation - though I'm not surprised.
The destruction of Yugoslavia and the crushing of Serbia by Imperialism and
the weak response by the left to these crimes will rank as on one of the
greatest failures of the left in this period. The Serbs' only crime is
opposition to Imperialism now and in 1941. We have been derelict in our
duty. It was the last place in Eastern Europe to be brought under the
control of pro US imperialist gangsters. Now since the coupe after the
last election, that small bastion of independence has been lost.
PS Don't bother trying to point out that it was not a worker's state and
all that. While that is probably true, whether it was "state capitalist"
or some other kind of capitalism, it was not part of the line up
imperialist stooge states.
At 10:44 PM 10/02/01 -0500, you wrote:
>marxism-digest Saturday, February 10 2001 Volume 01 : Number 3194
>In this issue:
> What is the effect of a Website like "z"
> Nietzsche, was Re: Marc Cooper or Jerry Springer
>Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:35:59 EST
>From: Borba100 at aol.com
>Subject: What is the effect of a Website like "z"
>What is the real EFFECT of a Website like Z? It is to achieve the reputation
>for militancy and then to undermine resistance to the sharpest acts of
>Thus the patron saint of Z, Noam Chomsky, during the bombing of Yugoslavia
>went on Z and the leftish Pacifica Radio station and said the bombing was bad
>because it gave the monstrous Serbs the eexcuse and reason to carry out even
>more atrocities against Albanians. A lie! A lie uttered without even saying
>the bombing was a war crime. If you doubt me, you can listen to it on
>Pacifica, before it gets pulled.
>And what you have just heard on Pacifica is the same thing Chomsky and Albert
>and Shalom and Said said on Z. So the bones that are tossed to radicalism at
>Z - opposition to corporations, love of ecology, whatever - are used in a
>very important practical sense to create credibility which then allows Z to
>UNDERMINE THOSE IN THE IMPERIALIST COUNTRIES WHO WANT TO ORGANIZE OPPOSITION
>TO THE REAL LIVING CRIMES OF IMPERIALISM.
>Sorry for the caps. It makes me scream. By pushing this line of "the
>bombing has unleashed the monstrous serbs and hence it is bad" Chomsky and
>the others at Z were far more harmful than the mainstream media precisely
>because no leftist would believe the mainstream media's justification for war
>- - but when a Chomsky (or on a smaller scale, a Chomsky-groupie like Albert)
>says this same stuff it has credibility.
From: "Pole Mic" <polemic at graffiti.net>
>Subject: Nietzsche, was Re: Marc Cooper or Jerry Springer
>- -- Christianity ... is a fine religion ... for slaves.
>- -- Nietzsche
>- -This merely repeats a false liberal account of
>- -Christianity but changes the sign from + to -.
>i'm not fully conversant with nietzsche and have been searching for the
>exact source of this quote, context is everything. your comment though,
>is curious. xtianity gained popularity amongst the slave populations of
>rome and is the favored religion of the least of us. this goes beyond
>mere 'liberal accounts' and gives address on a widespread and plainly
>viewable phenomenon. you must have some catholicism in you.
If I am not mistaken Karl Kautsky's "The Foundations of Christianity"
indicates that Christianity first made the most headway among the periphery
of the Jewish communities of the major cities of the empire. The ones
called the "True Believers" - Roman citizens and freedmen who were
attracted to the ideology of the single invisible, all seeing, all powerful
god but could not stomach the rigors of the whole Jewish culture that were
required for full conversion. That is adherence to the dietary laws,
circumcision etc. After that it moved very rapidly into the mainstream -
ranging from the lumpen proletariat of the cities to many very wealthy
citizens. Out side of the Spartacus Rebellion nobody paid much attention
to slaves unless they were very skilled and educated. In Rome,
particularly in the later years when the Empire's military power was in
decline and slaves were not so plentiful the class stratifications were
reproduced to some degree among the slaves.
More information about the Marxism