religion and marxism?

George Snedeker snedeker at
Mon Jan 1 15:58:43 MST 2001

this is just getting interesting. Nietzsche was correct that Christianity is
a denial of life. it denies human life in the name of the next world. it is
generally repressive of material human needs. however, to define
Christianity by sympathy is much too simple. their are many characteristics
of the Christian world. who would knock compassion? Christianity has had
2000 years to make something of this world. it has been a religion of the
True God against the other False Gods it has been trying to map out a
territory for God the Father. this has mostly been an accommodation to the
existing order. take a good look at the history of Catholicism and the
Protestant sects. now, you might argue that they are not the real
Christians. this is not liberation.

the USSr did make accommodations to the capitalist world system. Marxism
however can be separated from its use by the Russian nation-state. it is not
a religion. and it is not a dominant ideological force in the world.

Christians are not free to believe what ever they want they are bound by
traditions which have operated in their name. this is at least how things
seem to me. I was raised as a Baptist. I know the Christian spirit all too
well.I know you will say that there are real Christians who have not
followed these false teachings. I guess they must have their own version of
the teachings of the Son. tell me about these teachings if you like.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mervyn Hartwig <mh at>
To: <marxism at>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: religion and marxism?

> George:
> You have said both that Nietzsche was incorrect ('missed the target') to
> have
> >thought that the problem was that Christians were defined by "sympathy."
> and yet that
> >>Nietzsche was correct about Christianity being a denial of life.
> Which is it? You can't have it both ways - When Nietzsche says that
> Christianity is defined by 'sympathy' he means precisely that it is 'a
> denial of life' - it is the morality of slaves and the weak.
> You now go on to say that
> >the real problem with Christianity is its accommodation with
> >the existing order of capitalism.
> This is like saying that the real problem with Marxism in the Soviet era
> was its accommodation with actually existing socialism.
> (Nor is this of course at all what Nietzsche meant by 'a denial of
> life'.)
> Imo, to equate intellectual or religious ideas with their
> institutionalized forms within class society is rather like equating
> labour power with labour. What intellectual or religious tradition ever
> existed that couldn't be put to reactionary uses?
> In attacking Christianity (and socialism), Nietzsche at any rate knew
> which was the more important to discuss.
> --
> Mervyn Hartwig
> 13 Spenser Road
> Herne Hill
> London SE24 ONS
> United Kingdom
> Tel: 020 7 737 2892
> Email: mh at

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