Yoshie, Leona Freed and the Native Indian question

Doyle Saylor djsaylor at SPAMprimenet.com
Sun Jan 7 20:29:54 MST 2001


Greetings Comrades,
    Lou Proyect writes about Yoshie Furuhashi this way,

Lou,
The other thing is that Yoshie had been "pushing the envelope" since the
autumn.  I have discussed this matter with Richard off-list and it won't
hurt to repeat publicly what I told him privately. Yoshie's problem is not
that she "flames" people. It is that she adopts a condescending attitude
while defending positions whose underlying logic is that one and only one
side can be consistent with Marxism. I don't have to tell you how corrosive
that sort of thing can become on a list like this. In fact the old Marxism
lists were only partially destroyed because of flames. Another more serious
problem is that we attracted very mild-mannered, "civil" sectarians whose
every post questioned the ability of the other person in the debate--if not
the entire list--to understand basic Marxist principles.

Doyle
I find the way you, Lou, proceed in dealing with other human beings
arbitrary and inconsistent.   What I see is a lot anger toward Yoshie, but I
don't understand why Yoshie is sectarian.

What I see is that you drove Yoshie away.  I get how you want a
non-sectarian place for people to discuss things, but I also see how you do
not get how to integrate the social groups feelings.  Where you have quoted
Michael Perelman's approach to people on his list you seem to think you have
a concept of how people might be a part of things, but on this list what I
see is not so much Michael Perelman's approach, but your anger being
directed toward individuals in a personal way.

This seems to me then about how much pain you are in, rather than the
structure of the social group.  In that sense I see how Mine is supporting
you as collusion rather than intellectually honest ways of understanding
social groups.  Mine is supporting destructive impulses in you related to
your emerging anger, when it seems to me you ought to be aware of the danger
of your anger in social groups.

In many ways despite clashes in the past with you, I have felt more
intellectually free here to develop my ideas than I ever had on LBO.  I am
grateful for that, but I think I would want to see a serious reform in this
list if I am to continue.  I think Lou, where your feelings are concerned,
you are tending toward social isolation.  That is you are pushing away
people who would not need pushing away in a healthier social climate.  That
the content of the disagreements is not substantial.  I do not believe that
your state of mind, that is the anger you have, is how to construct a
cohesive long lasting social group.  In that you must recognize your
limitations and want a more collective social environment that limits your
ability to use anger in the social ties forming in this group.
thanks,
Doyle Saylor







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