Forwarded from Anthony (south)

Jay Moore research at
Fri Mar 16 13:26:32 MST 2001

As someone who comes from an "old Southern family" who was organized by his
grandmother when he was little to dress  up in a gray child-sized uniform
and help her decorate the graves of the "fallen" on Confederate decoration
day and who went to Stonewall Jackson High School (proud home of the
"Generals"), I have to say I agree most with Louis.  The sooner the better
we get rid of this reactionary nonsense, which has been nothing but a dead
political weight on the rest of the country as well as on the South.
However, it should be pointed out that not all white Southerners were
pro-secession or pro-slavery by any means.  The U.S. Civil War was also a
civil war involving different parts of the South.  West Virginia, seceeded
from Virginia, to remain in the Union.  Much of hillbilly small-farm eastern
Tenessee (where Andrew Johnson came from) supported the Union and fought
guerilla-style against the Rebs.  There was even one county in northern
Alabama that refused to seceed with the rest of the State.  I believe they
went on to raise a regiment to fight with the Union armies.  (In the North,
on the other hand, we had in certain areas -- New York City being one of
them -- whole nests of proSouthern "copperheads".)  Maryland had both
Federal and Rebel regiments.  Then, there were Southern-born abolitionists
like the Grimke sisters (of course, they had to flee North).  Etc. But,
anyway, there are a  bunch of examples of people from south of the
Mason-Dixon Line who tried to do the right thing back then.  Southern
history ought to recover their stories and put them forward, as it purges
the other drek.  And see how complicated this history really was certainly
ought to go against reified cultural traits.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Proyect" <lnp3 at>
To: <marxism at>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Forwarded from Anthony (south)

> Tony:
> >The North has a pride in its righteousness, and the South has a pride in
> >its mean spirited obstinance.     And 'pride' (defensiveness) is what
> >brings us both down to our knees.     But then I'm generalizing again,
> >here.
> No, you are not generalizing. You are using the kind of rhetoric found in
> neo-Confederate circles. In fact the North was righteous. Our heroes are
> John Brown, Thaddeus Stevens, William Lloyd Garrison and Frederick
> Douglass. Karl Marx wrote articles in the Herald Tribune on behald of the
> righteous north. The Civil War had aspects of a revolutionary class
> There are no southern heroes. Just as there were no heroes defending
> apartheid. Only villains. The political goal of the revolutionary movement
> is to wipe every vestige of the confederacy off the face of the earth,
> Dixie flags to celebrations of Southern victories on the battlefield. As
> dramatized by fights to remove Dixie flags from statehouses, this is a
> real struggle going on right now and it ill befits a Marxism mailing list
> to make concessions to the notion that this was just a war between the
> states, as if we were talking about soccer wars in Latin America or wars
> over dynastic succession in 17th century Europe.
> This is something I received offlist from an African student:
> Closer to home, I'm wondering what mental gymnastics must be required to
> lament the south, the south of oligarchs and slave owners no less, being
> treated as a defeated enemy--- and all this on your list of all places!!
> Louis Proyect
> Marxism mailing list:

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