Cuba, USSR and Africa
Borba100 at SPAMaol.com
Borba100 at SPAMaol.com
Wed Mar 28 23:31:56 MST 2001
(Sorry, I sent this just now incomplete)
Mark says: "I didn't say that Stalin's role was decisive. I said just the
are no genius leaders and great helmsmen. The decisive factor, actually, was
the organisation of Russian defence in depth; the Germans per contra bet the
farm on one throw of the dice."
Sorry if I misunderstood Mark's statement that "You do not have to subscribe
to weird ideas about genius leaders, great helmsmen etc, to recognize that
individuals play a role in history, and sometimes a decisive role. Just as
much as Hitler lost the war for Germany, Stalin won it for Soviet Russia".
To me that does not suggest the opposite of "Stalin was the decisive force"
but if it does to Mark, I stand corrected.
Concerning my remark that the Yugoslavs tied down Hitler for two decisive
months, Mark says:
<< You are barely half-right about what happened in
Belgrade in May 1941. It is a well-attested fact that the Yugoslav uprising
was directly instigated by *Stalin* as a spoiling action.
It is a well-attested fact that the Yugoslav uprising
was directly instigated by *Stalin* as a spoiling action. >>
First, this wouldn't make me "half right" - my point was that PEOPLE are what
counts - and those 44 divisions were certainly not tied down by Stalin, but
by the massive participation of hundreds of thousands of Yugoslavs, mainly
As for Mark's claim that Stalin ordered the actual coup against the
pro-Hitler regime, by whom is this "well attested"? If the coup was a secret
plot by Stalin, working through Cetniks in the army, my hat is off to him -
but please, where is the evidence? According to Partisans I have spoken to
the communists initially stood aside. If this is untrue it would be
wonderful news to me, and to them of course, so please - give me the sources.
I do know for a fact that in the US communists were ORDERED to drop all
antifascist activity after the Hitler-Stalin pact and this did NOT change in
March 1941, it changed the day after the Germans finally invaded Russia. So
if Stalin was organizing shrewd antifascist activity, he was using deep
cover, a terrible mistake since the decisive force in stopping fascism has to
be the people.
BTW, I did NOT say the German army was full of closet leftists. I made a
point about class. That is, about the working class. Working class is a
different category from leftists, right? My point is: it is (fortunately)
difficult to motivate an army full of WORKING CLASS PEOPLE to be fascist
whereas it is much easier to mobilize working people to fight fascism, their
natural enemy. Organization is very important, but it is the classic error
of the communist movement to think it - and not people's understanding - is
The difficulty of mobilizing working people for fascist goals was
demonstrated during the war in Vietnam, when the US army, which was
overwhelmingly working class, became increasingly uncooperative and then
rebellious and ultimately useless. Of course there was much antiwar agitation
in society and in the army. And of course this was much much less true in
the German army - nevertheless, my point holds.
The difficulty of mobilizing working people for fascism is now being shown in
Yugoslavia, from which country I just returned. I spoke to a rally there of
50,000 people and when I mentioned the name of Zoran Djindjic, who is more or
less a fascist, there was a roar of hatred.
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