Borba100 at Borba100 at
Thu May 10 13:02:31 MDT 2001

juliohuato at  wrote: "What state power is protecting the drug
cartels?  Yet, they are challenging the state  power in the US. >>

This argument is very important. If Julio were right, it would serve to
legitimize the present order in many people's minds. By showing people that
he is wrong we can win them to see the need for monumental change.

Reality demolishes Julio's argument: as I just proved, gangsterism is a
crucial part of state power. Moreover, his idea, which I didn't answer, that
the drug cartels "are challenging US state power" is nonsense.  It accepts
the line put out by establishment media. It justifies the "war on drugs"; it
implicitly justifies Colombia, etc. (I know, Julio didn't MEAN to do that but
that is the logic of his position...)

Having found that his argument has been demolished, the slippery and very
time-consuming (!!) Mr. juliohuato at  simply reproduces himself and

<<  Even in countries were the armed forces and the police have been duly
 aligned to protect them, the position of organized crime is vulnerable.  >>

EVEN IN?  But he has just denied that the State protects gangsterism. Isn't
he going to notice any consequences to the fact that his assertion is false?
Am I to take Julio seriously? If not, end of discussion. If yes, then: what
about the fact that Julio said: the state does not protect drug cartels?  In
fact, drug cartels (and big gangsterism in general) are the heart of U.S.
strategy - drug gangsters are the IDEAL DEMOCRATS to foist on poor countries.

As for the "vulnerability": of gangsters - vulnerability is part of their
beauty.  Gangsters are usable, AND they are vulnerable.  If they turn
rebellious (e.g., Noriega) they can then be smeared for  crimes they carried
out as part of U.S. covert operations.

<< While state agencies may protect them with a high degree of impunity, in
 some countries more than in others, they cannot do it so openly and

Well, that's a long way from "What state power is protecting the drug
cartels?  " - isn't it?

And so what?  There are lots of things the Imperial State (and lesser
monsters) cannot do openly.  Indeed, that's why they call "covert" agencies
"covert" - they are SECRET because ordinary people wouldn't approve.  Thus
the U.S. has ONE line on drug cartels openly (they are to be c rushed) and a
very different line on them COVERTLY.

Anyway the state DOES support gangsters publicly and openly.  It just doesn't
admit they are gangsters -- e.g., the KLA, etc.

<<The important thing is that, by doing so, they are endangering
 their own legal and political structures.  Ruling classes concerned about
 their long-term interests cannot feel happy about this.>>

OK now let's review: First Julio said that no state protects the drug
cartels.  Then he said some do.  Net they are endangering themselves by doing
so.  Ad finally, this makes them sad, suggesting - what?

This is just double talk meant to confuse the issue.  The long term interests
of the U.S. ruling class is: total and destructive (on an unprecedented
scale) domination of the world.  This super-destructive domination is an
economic necessity for their totally screwed up advanced capitalist system.
Dominate or die.

It is IMPOSSIBLE politically for the US ruling class to conquer the world
without the use of regional gangster and semi-gangster forces AND without the
gangsterization of "legitimate" forces - e.g., the violation of all
international laws by NATO, the U.S. navy, etc.

All over the world the U.S. has been and continues to be fighting wars, using
gangster-type proxies - whether death squads in Colombia (involved in drug
cartel activity) or KLA version in Yugoslavia or the streamlined and vicious
gangster types who rule Rwanda, etc. Some of these are pure gangsters.  Some
are fascists AND gangsters. Some use racism (KLA) and some don't. The point
is: gangster activity ("capitalist reproduction") FINANCES this key part of
state power, which paves the way for economic domination and rape.  As The
CIA-linked-columnist Thomas Freedman at the 'NY Times" said: "MacDonald's
Requires Macdonald Douglas" - the big war contractor.

juliohuato at  says: "In brief, this is a vein of capitalist
reproduction that goes against  international law and most national legal
codes.  And also key, these
 activities are carried out under the disapproval of a great deal of people,
 with the likely exception of people in areas where the economic benefits of
 drug trafficking spill over."

Gangsterism is as I have shown IN FACT PART OF STATE POWER though the
connection is covert, or the gangsters are openly embraced but not described
as gangsters. Gangsterism involves economic activity but that activity ALWAYS
requires force - and the goal in organizing and encouraging and linking with
gangsterism (by the "legitimate"  parts of the State) are: the extension of
U.S. state power to other lands.  So whereas some parts of the US state
apparatus engages in no economic activity, the gangster part is economically
productive AS WELL AS PART OF STATE POWER.  The beatify of it for the US is:
gangsterism is self-financing covert action.

By DEFINING gangsterism as  simply economic activity (capitalist
reproduction) juliohuato at  is trying to win by confusing everyone.

And as for the "problem" that gangsterism violates international law - what
world is juliohuato at  in?  The U.S. has made violation of
international law A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE. They call it "human rights overrides
national sovereignty" - remember?: They have violated the Helsinki Final Act,
Geneva Convention on War, UN Charter, NATO CHARTER - out the window. Their
proxy forces control the drug and sex-slave trades - which are together the
biggest business in the world. Bigger than oil, according to Chossudovsky.
And used to pay for the U.S.-inspired proxy wars against Balkans, Russia,
various African states (especially Congo), Colombia, etc.

OF course, as Julio says, this runs afoul of the decent feelings of most
people but what else is new? So do many things, e.g., the slaughter of
civilians under a bridge in South Korea by U.S. GI's during the Korean War,
or Bob Kerrey's Operation Phoenix slaughter or Hiroshima/Nagasak, etc.

Enter: the media whose job is to lie, not to mention leftists who apologize
for this process and try to confuse people into not opposing it by babbling
about how gangsterism is just a form of "capitalist reproduction" when it is
in fact part of state power - the exposure of which fact is important

"But even if you were completely right in your  description of the links
between organized crime and governments, how would  they prove that state
power is the essence of capitalist reproduction? >>

Having been proved completely wrong, Julio disguises his inability to defend
his false statements by using a trick - he writes AS IF some part of his
argument might be left standing - "even if you are completely right."  First
of all, this isn't "my" argument. It is the argument of over a billion people
in the world.  Second, why speculate?  If "I" am not right - where am I wrong?

The United States ruling class is attempting to dominate the world.  To do
this the KEY force is the foreign operations apparatus of the U.S. -
military, covert, and semi-overt (like National Endowment for 'Democracy' and
USAID).  These outfits and institutions are in operation in every continent
and in most countries. They create and guide proxy forces including and
especially - gangsters.  This is for example very true in Serbia right now,
where the U.S. has created gangster governments, both in Belgrade and in

Julio says I have missed the point of this discussion.  No, I think he is
trying to confuse people with obscurantism. In the midst of his facile
obscurantism he slips in important points: such as his false assertion that
the state does not protect gangsters and that the drug cartels are challenged
state power in the U.S. or his  slick trick of defining gangsterism as
economic activity when he cannot disprove the arguments showing that
gangsterism is in large measure STATE activity, though of course of the most
covert type.


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