Regarding Annett and Craven

Craven, Jim jcraven at
Wed Sep 5 16:51:40 MDT 2001

On Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:09:10 -0600 (MDT),
ermadog at wrote:
>The little statelets that might eventually
>emerge out of the aboriginal people's struggles
>can no more defend their own borders than Canada

This is not the issue in Canada, nor is it in Chile with the Mapuche.
Neither the Blackfoot nor the Mapuche are secessionists. They are
demanding that stolen land be returned and that sovereignty over
mineral resources, etc. be defended. Although indigenous struggles
have many of the same dynamics of classic national struggles for
self-determination, there are distinct differences. Instead of
worrying over whether a separate Blackfoot nation is viable, we
should solidarize ourselves with a people whose oil and coal reserves
are being plundered by rapacious oil companies in league with the BIA
and corrupt tribal officials. This is the real meaning of
self-determination in Indian country, not having the power to coin
your own currency or have an air force. Let's get real.

Louis Proyect, lnp3 at on 09/05/2001

Marxism list:

Louis, I'll respond to you but not to the vitriol of that sad, angry,
pathetic and rather embittered creature whose post you are responding to. It
is not up to me or any other individual Blackfoot to envision what a
sovereign Blackfoot Nation might look like; we will determine that
collectively, democratically, according to Blackfoot ways and we have the
absolute right not to be exterminated, the right to national sovereignty and
self-determination (by virtue of the very same laws that Canada uses to
assert/defend Canadian sovereignty. If we do desire our own borders,
currency etc then we will assert and defend such; it is interesting to note
that the U.S. and Canada now have no problem with the breakup of the former
Soviet Union into 15 some nations or the breakup of former Yugoslavia etc.
Why not Canada and the U.S.

When I use the word genocide I am using it in both the legal sense (defined
in Article II of the UN Convention on Genocide, as the originator of the
term Raphael Lemkin used it and as it is used in other international law.) I
know that you have read the relevant laws and body of work on genocide, but
I wonder how many like Joan who presume to speak on the issue have read even
the basic UN Convention on Genocide? I don't know, but I wonder.

Yes we need alliances and yes we need to be respectful of the sensitivities
of those with whom we are in alliance. But was that vitriol of Joan's
respectful or conducive to dialogue and exchange? And then she wonders why I
cannot respond "respectfully" when I get such vitriol, misrepresentation and
outright racism; her post was the type of white arrogance, racism,
chauvinism and jingoism that I was alluding to in describing the rank
ignorance and arrogance of such self-proclaimed/identified "Marxists" on
issues of self-determination and sovereignty of Indigenous Nations. All
Marxists, as far back as I know of, accept the right of oppressed nations to
self-determination and national sovereignty even within a socialist
framework or federation, and accept that it is the duty of Marxists to stand
with oppressed peoples for their survival and self-determination; there is
an extensive body of Marxist thought on that question.

I will respectful to those who are respectful and I will viciously and
relentlessly attack--especially self-proclaimed "Marxists"--who preach
outright racism, jingoism, genocide-denial, snitch-jacketing  and other
forms of rank arrogance,ignorance and outright wrecking on this or any other
list. I will not respond to any of Joan's posts on oral tradition or
anything else as she is obviously a sad creature in need of more than a dog
to kick around and frankly there is just too much to do and in the scheme of
things, that responding any more to this kind of pathogen is not justified
in opportunity cost or other terms.

Louis, I didn't start it. BTW the situation of the Mennonites (a bunch of
in-bred, bigoted and evangelical fanatics in my opinion) has nothing to do
with the situation of First Nations survival and self-determination; nothing
at all, and such comparisons are but more racism, ignorance and arrogance.

Jim Craven

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