The ongoing genocide in Palestine

grok grok at
Tue Apr 2 15:08:41 MST 2002

Excuse ME -- but you TOTALLY forget (maybe NOT...) the shameful sell-out
of the palestinians which the 'Oslo' process is (I believe below you
DEFEND this long-running fraud); AND you forget the totally demoralizing
effect the ongoing *corrupt* Palestinian Authority has had all these
years on the palestinian people (certainly before Intifada II got
underway, forcing 'leadership' on the Arafat crowd).

ONLY the almost self-organizing INTIFADA has turned this post-modern,
neoliberal bantustan fait-accompli into a struggle that constantly puts
the Arafat crowd on CNN, etc. (i.e. makes them 'relevant') -- after all,
Arafat is a man the West 'can do business with' -- no matter the
constant straw-man set-ups as his being the SOURCE of the Intifada AND
palestinian terrorism (much as the kow-towing social-democrats are,
often enuff, set up as 'reds' whenever it moves the bourgeoisie to do

As for the name-calling here -- well, I guess this goes under the
category of the usual marxist pot calling the ultra-left kettle black.
An armchair marxist (in effect)?? Tell that to my friendly neighborhood
DEATHSQUAD, Dom-ass. I am pretty much PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE where I

BESIDES which: did I SAY ANYTHING about _abandoning_ Arafat??
I thought not.

Don't put words in my mouth, fella. I won't even address HALF the shite
you spew in my direction: my reply would be far too long; but I note
that YOUR problem seems to be the usual inability of too many people to
hold even TWO _apparently_ contradictory thoughts in their skulls at the
same time -- a failing common to BOTH marxists AND bourgeois.

DON'T let your righteous indignation and anger get the better of your

-- grok.

On Tue, 2002-04-02 at 07:14, Domhnall wrote:

> Apart from making my blood boil, this is the sort of crap which turns most
> serious fighters against Marxism and self-professed Marxists. That
> ultra-leftist 'commentators', can with the touch of a keyboard be so
> dismissive of Yassir Arafat and the whole of Fatah/PLA is shameful. I
> suppose that grok, that fearless fighter and calculated, experienced leader,
> would have bravely urged his people to taking on impossible odds should be
> no surprise to us silly militants. He would bravely wade through their (and
> our) blood to avoid the 'sell-out' (read strategic compromise) of Oslo!
> Perhaps too, he is oblivious of the fact that right now Arafat is admired
> across the middle-east and by working-class people everywhere; that he is
> stuck in a compound with only intermittant lighting with low food and water
> supplies and is a symbol of his people who are suffering likewise. This is
> some way to treat the zionist's 'best friend' who has been identified by
> Sharon as the origin of all terror! Indeed, that Oslo agreement must have
> been some deal for the Israelis being that subsequently they have had to
> invade the rest of Palestine and eradicate its leadership to prevent it's
> full implementation! At the same time, those fearless members of Fatah (now
> composing the Palestinian Police Force) are being summarily executed by the
> IDF and seem to be the only people left out there defending the population.
> The Al-Aqsa brigades (who grok seems to ignore) are leading the fight into
> Israel by any means necessary - I believe that 16 year old was from their
> ranks. Need I make anything more explicit in this medium?
> Everyone can make mistakes, but to offer criticism of the PLA at this time,
> when what is needed is to get out and organise wherever you are, is totally
> inappropriate.
> Even worse! According to your logic we should celebrate should the Israelis
> murder Chairman Arafat, eradicate Fatah and the Al-Aqsa brigades and rob a
> nation of its pride and identity. I suppose the processing of the entire
> Palestinian population through death camps should be welcomed as it will
> radicalise the working masses of Arabia against their leaderships!! The
> worse the better...
> If all you can offer is pipedreams of Arab unity and shallow criticisms of
> past policy when what is required now is to save the Palestinian people from
> extermination (which is on the cards), then you are less than worthless.
> Yes, we can all hope that the Saudi's get rid of their sick royal family.
> Yes, we can hope that Jordan invades and Syria attacks...but what can we do?
> Get out and get organised against your own leaderships.
> As far as a peace deal is concerned, most thinking here among
> 'well-informed' people suggests that the Saudi deal (backed by the US) was
> meant to be sold by means of Arafat's absence from the Arab summit. That
> would then open the possibility for the portrayal of the Israelis and the
> PLA accepting it as a neutral deal which would be forced on both by the Arab
> Community and the USA, respectively. I'm sure list members are aware of the
> content of this 'deal' - basically full Israeli withdrawal from the 1967
> occupied territories in return for dual recognition of Israel and the PA
> across the board. It also included the promise of 'financial compensation'
> for the 'right to return'. I think that this was the price exacted by the
> Arab oligarchies for future acquiescience when Iraq is attacked by the USA -
> the hug between the Saudi royal and Saddam was just a shot across the bows.
> However, the Israeli's response was completed different than that expected.
> Sharon does not want peace, even in terms which would replace the 'right to
> return' with the 'right to get paid not to return'. I think he feels that
> the Palestinian 'problem' can only be solved by the liquidation of the
> Palestinian people themselves. Under the implementation of such a plan and
> set against the near complete acquiescience of the Western media to the
> Israeli lobby - a little intelligence and understanding should be dispensed
> in relation to the strategy of the PLA at present.
> Domhnall.

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