boys dont cry
MindAphid at aol.com
MindAphid at aol.com
Sun Aug 11 17:11:23 MDT 2002
i hope no one minds that i changed the title of the thread. the national
organization for women seemed to have got off the train way back in tulsa.
> >The commodification of sex is quite logical under capitalism.
> It's quite logical under any economic system in which men hold power over
> women. Or I suppose you believe that rape and relationships formed on a
> material needs basis were blissfully non-existent before the First Man put
> a fence around a piece of land and boomed, "This is mine, and the name I
> will give it is my PROPERTY".
Historically, the rape of males was more widely recognized in ancient times.
Several of the legends in Greek mythology involved abductions and sexual
assaults of males by other males or gods. The rape of a defeated male enemy
was considered the special right of the victorious soldier in some societies
and was a signal of the totality of the defeat. There was a widespread belief
that a male who was sexually penetrated, even if it was by forced sexual
assault, thus "lost his manhood," and could no longer be a warrior or ruler.
Gang rape of a male was considered an ultimate form of punishment and, as
such, was known to the Romans as punishment for adultery and the Persians and
Iranians as punishment for violation of the sanctity of the harem (Donaldson,
Donaldson, Donald. (1990). "Rape of Males," in Dynes, Wayne, ed. Encyclopedia
of Homosexuality. New York: Garland Publications.
> >Xyxyxyyx mentions the magnitude of sexual prostitution in the USA (if
> >that's what she means by "this country"), but its exponential malignancy
> >in the erstwhile Eastern Bloc states really should be highlighted,
> >emphasized and reiterated as the results of market relations' rough
> >intrusion. Whole peoples are in the process--NOW!--of being
> >effectively, and materially raped by capitalism.
> Men rape women. Capitalism rapes workers. Get it straight.
women also rape men, and at increasing rates.
and men rape men, although the statistics are far less well maintained than
for male on female rape. this is partly due to the pressure on men to
maintain their proper role as men and the attitude of society towards men.
for instance, prison rape is taken simply as an amusing fact of life by most
people, the subject of coutless jokes. men are also supposed to be
hypersexual and thus when a women treats a man as a sex
object it is always assumed that he enjoys it, that he wishes this were the
regular state of affairs. prison rape is naturalized in this way as men
quenching their tremendous, pent-up sexual appetites.
in any case, in the us, less than 15% of men report their rapes compared to
25% of women. its estimated that male rapes account for 5-10% of all rapes
and that approximately one in fourteen men is a rape survivor, the majority
being white and heterosexual. male rapes are also generally more violent,
with a higher rate of weapon use, physical injury and multiple assailants
compared to the rape of women. the psychological damage may also be heavier.
in addition to experiencing the same trauma as women, men often experience a
heightened degree of pure shock and surprise having never been socialized to
fear sexual assault. they also often feel a loss of masculinity, and indeed
begin to question their sexual orientation. further, men suffer a greater
amount of isolation and difficulty in dealing with the trauma of rape because
of the social stigma surrounding male rape and the fact that they generally
do not have the access to the resources (support groups, self help books,
etc) that women do.
finally, even the legal aspects of rape differ for men and women. in some
states, the rape of men is not defined by law under the same terminology or
degree of offense as the rape of women. laws here in ohio regard rape and
sexual assault equally with male or female victims, but other states dont
recognize oral or anal penetration as being rape and instead categorize them
on other forms of sex crimes (i.e., sodomy).
a hustler article makes all these points in a very succinct manner:
"Frank might have been stopped sooner, but male victims don't report, and all
too often law enforcement and the justice system downplay the significance of
the crime. In New York and North Carolina, for instance, it is a lesser
offense to rape a man than it is to rape a woman. And, although this may be
changing, rape-crisis centers have often not recognized the male victim. One
man who tried to get help on a rape-crisis line was told, "We don't work with
offenders." When he explained that he was the victim, he was accused of
making a crank call and was hung up on.
"The feminist movement has helped bring the rape of women and, more recently,
the molestation of children to the public's attention, resulting in fairer
treatment of victims in the legal system and tougher sentences for offenders.
But adult male victims of sexual assault have a long way to go before they
are given the same recognition."
my personal experience somewhat confirms this view of feminism. i brought up
the subject of male rape to a friend and president of a local womens
organization and she basically replied "so what?" another time, i shared some
experience of male brutality with a socialist friend and she scoffed at the
idea that men might face gender oppression saying "yea, men have it so hard."
i could go on with personal experiences, but i will leave it at that.
anyway, there is a whole literature (including socialist and marxist writers)
under the category of mens studies that deals with these kinds of issues. i
can give you some references if youd like, although i have read none of it
> I really hate it
> when people deconstruct rape or (prostitution) such that it is not "men"
> who are raping women but rather conditions, systems, or other entities.
> This dilutes the power imbalance between men and women (FYI this is
> otherwise known in feminist circles as "the patriarchy") and allows the
> male reader or academic not to feel involved in the power structure in
> question. It's a no-guilt mechanism.
before you stated that "capitalism rapes workers." does developing a systemic
understanding of capitalism similarly dilute the power imbalance between
workers and capitalists and allow capitalists to not feel involved in the
power structure? i think the problem here is an inability to develop a
conception of objectified subjectivity, where by subjective forces take on a
life of their own and maintain the appearance of objective, timeless reality.
if you view social relations as purely subjective, you end up with nothing
but moralism and in actuality a view of objectified subjectivity as purely
objective and essentialized (thus it is the objective facts of the nature of
men to rape rather than social conditions which lead to such behavior).
the main point is that gender oppression, like all oppression, is not a
one-sided affair. if we must drag marx into this, his on suicide is an
excellent example of this. the american pragmatist philosopher john dewey
also made similar arguments (i cant remember the articles off hand).
anyway, im all for no-guilt mechanisms. guilt-tripping is a notoriously
ineffective method of revolutionary combat. better to try da shiee far to
the taiyang or taiyin cavity, which with the proper amount of power and
correct method will cause death.
> Did I mention the bourgeois feminist who told me that prostitution was
> >"empowering" for hookers? Sheesh!
> Did I mention the Marxist who wants to assume that they have knowledge of
> the apparently monolithic experience of women in the sex-trade industry?
> Okay, so her statement was monolithic in scope as well, but yours makes me
> just as uncomfortable.
> Talk to street workers who feel more empowered hustling than working at
> McDonald's. As a matter of fact, talk to me about that. That was my take
> This "bourgeois" feminist probably would make many men very uncomfortable.
> The idea that prostitution can be more empowering than non-sex-for-pay
> relations with men, is a threatening thought, isn't it?
to me, its not threatening so much as it is sad, sad that thats what things
have come to. a little postcard from the damaged life.
the nature of history is precisely that every definition degenerates into an
illusion: history is the history of the unceasing overthrow of the objective
forms that shape the life of man
- g lukács
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