More on Socialist energy / environment measures (Defense of Mark)

James Daly james.irldaly at
Tue Dec 3 09:36:17 MST 2002

"viveka" writes

[About the Irish famine, which the Indian famine expert Amartya Sen says was
the worst in history in proportion to the population]

*Kay, again you are over-reacting and not putting this into context*.

To suggest that *a system, no matter how idealistic, will need to make

choices*, is tsimply o put reality into the discussion. Mark posed
*sacrifice*[murder of whole populations -- please answer, why call it
sacrifice?] as an "hypothetical," but such extreme possibities are important

consider, and, *in fact are part of actual decisions being made [under
capitalism]. Thousands

of Nepalese were displaced to create a reserve to ensure the survival of the

rhinos and tigers in Nepal. How many of them might have actually died

because of it?* [The same kind of thing is scheduled to happen under

*To suggest that "socialism" would not be faced with difficult choices [e.g.
genocide?] is to

put your head in the sand*.


> So the future is a choice between barbarism and

> barbarism since it seems unlikely that the "transition

> away from the petroleate society" is going to happen

> in the next few weeks?

That may be the case, but *I don't think it makes sense or moves the

discussion forward to blame the messenger*, [a messenger who makes difficult
decisions?] **now does it?**[patronising condescension]


> Kay replies:

> I wonder how you can build viable parties and/or

> coalitions without some vision of what future we are

> fighting for.

I think a future in which the planet survives is a good one. *I don't think

it hurts to scare the shit out of people. It's a good motivator*.

[Advocacy of blatant manipulation.]

[Say Jose were the messenger?]


James Daly

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