Hunter Gray hunterbadbear at
Fri Nov 1 05:26:01 MST 2002

This is posted primarily for ASDnet -- but I am putting it on a couple of
additional ones:

On other lists on which I find myself, the "gun issue" is occasionally
discussed and, when so, it's in an essentially rational fashion. There seem
to be a couple of reasons for this:  it's often seen on those as a basically
class issue -- i.e., the employing  class et al.  trying to disarm the
working class and others "of the fewest alternatives" [including
minorities] --
a Marxist view, obviously, with which I agree.
The other reason is that, on those other lists, there are people with direct
personal experience as firearms owners and users.

Only on ASDnet has there been, with the  exception of Issodhos, no visible
evidence that anyone other then myself knows much of  a substantive  nature
about firearms.  For the most part, the anti-gun voices on ASDnet are coming
essentially from a Democratic Party perspective -- hardly a genuinely
socialist one in the remotest sense -- and one which swims in the tepid
Rivers of [shallow] Political Correctness [while the really heavy
and historically  demanding  sanguinary Rivers of No Return press in on us
from the very Four Directions.]

For those of us who have grown up with firearms, a gun is literally "no
better or worse than the person who uses it."  To many others, guns are
something they can at least discuss objectively.  To the anti-gun folk on
ASDnet -- and to at least some of the New York DSAers et al. especially --
mechanisms of which they have no direct and personal knowledge are seen as
inherently evil and threatening.  Obviously, in addition to missing the many
benefits [primarily good meat and skill-testing] from hunting, none of them
have ever had to defend themselves and their family and their people with
 firearms.  And, with the exception of genuinely principled pacifists [who
never turn and run away, these anti-gunners [I don't mean just non-gunners]
are certainly not people with  whom I'd ever be  comfortable next to me in
any physical -- and especially lethal -- confrontation.

Ever see a picket line against which the copper bosses are aiming scabs and
thugs --
and suddenly several dozen deer rifles appear in the hands of the hard-rock
miners?  And the bosses and their lackeys back away -- pronto.  That's
effective self-defense. The Southern Movement functioned primarily not in a
Gandhian sense -- but in a tactically non-violent one.  But, like community
organizing in Southside Chicago and a vast number of other crucibles,
there were/are  certainly countless examples of principled, individual
self-defense against racist and related elements.

In that context, I should add that I see, for example, Michael Moore as an
increasingly irrelevant factor.Obviously, he and his groupies are still
clinging to the fast fading Clinton/Gore/Lieberman tradition of endeavouring
to build anti-gun capital in any sick fashion possible.  Remember how, after
a gun-related tragedy, Clinton/Gore would gather family survivors around
them in the Rose Garden to make their sanctimoniously self-serving prattle?
They used the "issue" in precisely the same fashion as the old Southern
racists used race in Dixie -- to divert attention away from the really
issues confronting Humanity.  ["Asked why the Mississippi highway
program has virtually slowed to a stop, Governor Barnett shifted the
discussion to Communist efforts to register colored voters in the state and
the possibility of a Gulf Coast invasion from Cuba."  From the Jackson Daily

In the meantime, Clinton/Gore et al. were joining Republicans in gutting
welfare and strengthening the death penalty and bombing Yugoslavia for 90
days -- as well as Iraq and Sudan and much more.  It's not surprising that
Moore's anti-gun pieces find resonance among his kindred souls on ASDnet.

Here are a couple of historical pieces which some may have seen, others not.
an Indian, I am in the soul, very much a traditionalist. And remember, that
great Chiricahua/Mescalero freedom fighter, Geronimo, during his wild and
free days, never failed to include -- in any photos taken of him -- his
Springfield and then, in keeping with technological movement, his Winchester
40/60 WCF 1876 lever action.

These are from our website:

John Gray [Ignace Hatchiorauquasha], great/great/great grandfather of Hunter

"Gray -- Ross had described him the year before as "a turbulent blackguard,
a damned rascal" -- then launched into a denunciation of the policies of HBC
in general and the men of the Columbia Department in particular:  ". . .the
greatest Villains in the World & if they were here this day I would shoot
them . . ."     John Gray [Ignace Hatchiorauquasha], Mohawk, fighting leader
of the Iroquois fur-hunters in the Far West, to Peter Skene Ogden et al. of
the Hudson's Bay Company, on May 24 1825, at the point John Gray and his
Native band struck Ogden's camp -- near the present northeastern
Utah/southeastern Idaho border -- and successfully ended a viciously
exploitative pricing system and quasi-indentured servitude over the  whole,
entire wide region.

Cited from:  Don Berry, A Majority of Scoundrels: An Informal History of the
Rocky Mountain Fur Company  [New York: Harper & Brothers, 1961], page 97.

The Western Federation of Miners -- founder of IWW and later rechristened as
the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers -- responds to the
cruel and viciously sanguinary repression initiated by the Mine Owners'
Association and its lackeys in the Rocky Mountain and environs region.

At the WFM convention of 1897, held at Salt Lake City,  president Ed Boyce
delivered a famous speech:

"I deem it important to direct your attention to Article 2 of the
Constitutional Amendments of the United States -- "the right of the people
to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."  This you should comply with
immediately.  Every [local] union should have a rifle club.  I strongly
advise you to provide every member with the latest improved rifle, which can
be obtained from the factory at a nominal price.  I entreat you to take
action on this important question, so that in two years we can hear the
inspiring music of the martial tread of 25,000 armed men in the ranks of
labor."  [Cited in, among others, Vernon H. Jensen, Heritage of Conflict:
Labor Relations In  The Non-Ferrous Metals Industry Up   To 1930  (Ithaca:
Cornell University Press, 1950)  page 67.]

And few of my many experiences -- under my former name of
John R. Salter, Jr. [from an early 1990s essay by David Koepel]:

"In the 1950s and 1960s, a new civil rights movement began in the South.
White supremacist tactics were just as violent as they had been during
Reconstruction. Blacks and civil rights workers armed for self-defense.
John Salter, a professor at Tougaloo College and chief organizer of the
N.A.A.C.P.'s Jackson Movement during the early 1960s, wrote, "No one knows
what kind of massive racist retaliation would have been directed against
grass-roots black people had the black community not had a healthy measure
of firearms within it." Salter personally had to defend his home and family
several times against attacks by night riders. After Salter fired back, the
night riders fled.

The unburned Ku Klux Klan cross in the Smithsonian Institution was donated
by a civil rights worker whose shotgun blast drove Klansmen away from her

State or federal assistance sometimes came not when disorder began but when
blacks reacted by arming themselves. In North Carolina, Governor Terry
Sanford refused to command state police to protect a civil rights march from
Klan attacks. When Salter warned Governor Sanford that if there were no
police, the marchers would be armed for self-defense, the Governor provided
police protection."  [From an essay, "Trust the People" by David Koepel]

Hunter Gray  [Hunterbear] [formerly John R Salter, Jr]
Protected by Na´shdo´i´ba´i´
and Ohkwari'

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