US and Israel

LouPaulsen LouPaulsen at
Sun Nov 10 21:02:30 MST 2002

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Ferguson" <plf13 at>

> But the notion that the biggest and most powerful capitalist economy in
> the world, with the biggest imperialist war machine, follows orders from
> Israel, transmitted via Zionist lobbies and policy shonks in the US, is
> just plain bizarre.  It's time to turn the relationship right-way up.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Phil's entire post.

Someone, I forget who, said that U.S. policy toward Israel is "suicidal", so
this proves that the imperialists aren't following their own class interest.
My three responses are

(a) if it's suicidal, why aren't they dead yet?

(b) you could just as easily argue that the conquest of Iraq is 'suicidal',
and indeed some imperialists are afraid exactly of that.  But in this whole
period they have been deciding whether to try to subvert a lot of
governments and create a more or less stable and peaceful world imperialist
order, or whether this is a utopian and impractical idea and they should
just have few or no allies and impose a global Raj and govern with terror.
Having committed to the second route, support for Israel makes a lot of
sense in the same way that it did when Herzl proposed the idea to the
British 100 years ago.

(c) if on the other hand it were really true that a comparatively small
Zionist cabal were forcing US imperialism to do its bidding to the point of
pursuing a "suicidal" policy, then you would have to throw Marx out the
window, and the whole idea that -classes- are the chief actors in history,
and you would have to accept that history is really made by cabals and
conspiracies forcing the powers to do their will by means of craft, bribery,
etc.  Really we would have to become Larouchies.  I think that we would need
overwhelming evidence to cause us to discard the Marxist paradigm, and I
haven't seen it yet.

Lou Paulsen

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