Arctic Ice Melting Much Faster Than Thought: maybe they'll make amphibious SUVs

Mike Ballard swillsqueal at
Sat Nov 30 17:52:01 MST 2002

--- Mark Jones <markjones011 at> wrote:
> At 30/11/2002 09:48, you wrote:
> >The people who rule us are only in it for the
> money.
> >Most of the energy money is invested in fossil fuel
> >technologies.  The science and technology exist to
> run
> >internal combustion engines on hydrogen.
> Capitalism
> >is the true fetter on producion.  It's basically
> set
> >for self-destruct now.  Hopefully, we'll wake up
> >before the whole shit-house goes up in flames and
> set
> >up a society of our own, one where the condition
> for
> >the freedom of each is the condition for the
> freedom
> >of all.
> This is wrong. It is pure happy-happy self-delusion
> to suppose that
> hydrogen is an alternative to petroleum. People
> ought to understand by now
> the very simple and basic rules of physics and of
> thermodynamics which
> explain why hydrogen is not an alternative to fossil
> fuel, any more than
> electricity is. H2 carried in bottles or pipelines,
> like electricity
> carried in batteries or over cables, is an energy
> *carrier* not a primary
> source of energy. Like electricity, H2 has to be
> generated and there are
> only 2 large scale ways of doing so: my nuclear
> power or by, yes, burning
> fossil fuels. Anyone who suggests that hydrogen can
> be made freely
> available without the expenditure of even more
> fossil fuel (and hence,
> release of GHG) than is contained energetically in
> the generated hydrogen,
> is peddling the modern equivalent of perpetual
> motion machines. Stop
> dreaming that there is some alternative to fossil
> fuel which will let
> capitalist urban industrial society continue in the
> same old way but using
> some other 'cleaner' etc energy-input. It won't
> happen, can't happen, and
> this is why capitalism as a historical social order
> is going to END, one
> way or another.
> Mark

I disagree Mark see my earlier post on hydrogen.  Time
to organize the power to change this set of
circumstances is now.  There is power in the union:


"Scientists do not believe the thawing trend
> is reversible. 'This change
> is already taking effect,' Mr. Agnew said. 'The
> whole system is very slow to
> start and also very slow to stop.'"

kinda says it,
doesn't it?

Mike B)

"Man first begins to philosophize when the necessitites of life are supplied."  Aristotle

"determinatio est negatio"  Spinoza

"There are no ordinary cats."  Colette

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