marxism-digest V1 #6200

Richard Harris rhh1 at
Sun Aug 10 17:52:28 MDT 2003

Jose said:

> NO!!! You don't get Richard's point. Comrades in the U.S. should call on
> British troops being shot. Comrades in Europe have the honor of calling
> for the American troops to be shot. That way everyone stays clear of
> social patriotic demands like demanding your own imperialism get the
> fuck out of whatever country it is invading right now in a way that
> regular working people can understand and that can mobilize them and
> therefore has a chance of making a real difference, which would, of
> course, compromise our revolutionary virginity.

I thought you were intelligent but wrong (due to corruption by living in the
US.)  But you are just stupid.

In my original posting, I said:

"I am not going to tell any American comrade what to do, but the slogan
BTTHN  sounds to me American
patriotic (does it include British troops?  Don't just say yes as no British
left is using that slogan.  If it is supposed to include British etc. then
you have to talk to us rather than being an imperialist left and telling us
our slogans.  Would you have made the limp BTTHN call when the genocide
against native Americans was in full flood?)  Let me tell you, it sounds
like Americans backing American troops.  Buchanan uses the same slogan.

Now this tactic could be justified if you could be clear about your
audience.  But the international audience I've met (which isn't much) don't
see this slogan as worker internationalism, but as American chauvinism."

That is what I said.  Then I get a torrent of abuse from Jose, intelligent
disagreement from Mark and others.  I think this matter is worthy of debate
and intelligent disagreement is all one can ask of another.  Then we can all
move on.

Jose, as you are just unable to understand my simple point, I withdraw from
debating with you and apologise for my recent sharp comments to you.


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