Jon Flanders' comments on January 18 demonstration

La Sainte pleau at
Fri Jan 3 15:16:57 MST 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Flanders" <Jon_Flanders at>
To: <marxism at>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Jon Flanders' comments on January 18 demonstration

> Lou Paulsen and Fred Feldman make some good points, I would agree with
> many of them.
>   But on one central contention Lou makes I would strongly disagree.
> That is the argument that the timing of actions should be primarily
> driven by the notion of stopping the war "BEFORE BAGHDAD IS
>   This is wrong on at least two counts.
>   First, we are not at a stage where the working class in the United
> States is ready to massively move to stop this war. I say that as
> someone who has actively organized in the labor movement around the
> issue with some success. Resolutions by the many labor groups do not
> make an anti-war movement in the working class. There is a big
> difference between anti-war sentiment, which is large, and growing, and
> the willingness to turn out in the streets over the issue. Most workers
> I talk to are still in the "what can you do" stage.

You are discounting international reaction. Within the last 24 hours or so,
we have heard that Jordan and Turkey are now no longer cooperating with the
U.S. in its war against Iraq. I'm sure the decision was made for a number of
reasons. But it could be in at least a small part because millions of
Europeans, including working class, and millions of USians, including
working class, oppose this war and many are coming out openly against it and
encouraging others to do so as well. In other words, this is not going to be
a popular war by anyone's estimation.

>   Secondly, it is wrong to think that the US intends to "OBLITERATE
> BAGHDAD." What they intend to do is occupy it, in collaboration with
> such quisling forces as they can buy or influence. This occupation will
> not be over quickly, and the very fact of it will greatly accelerate
> opposition around the world.


Why not do our very best to try to stop the war before it starts? Also, we
don't know what the U.S.'s plans are for Baghdad.  If it means obliterating
it to get control of Iraqi oil, the U.S. government will do it. It has no
conscience, no morals, no qualms over killing anybody and everybody to get
that control. As a reminder, imperialism, including U.S. imperialism, by its
very nature is psychopathic.

> Jon Flanders


Cherie Pleau

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