One more time....

David Schanoes dmsch at
Mon Jan 13 16:02:04 MST 2003


I have always maintained that oil was the fulcrum, the commodity of
commodities.  For just that reason, analysis of overproduction and the rate
of profit is more critical.

The question I asked is what is propelling the imperial war venture, is it a
resource war or is it the manifestation of class war. So my hypothetical
conversation with the hypothetical capitalist is exactly the point since its
the concrete capital beating the war drum.  I think you may have missed the

Where does our analysis locate the cause of the predicament; in the
organization of property, and labor as wage-labor, or in the scarcity of
resources, which from Mark's latest missive since to be doomsday in our
time.  And if we can't locate it in the conflict between the means and
relations of production, then all our talk about appeals to workers and
revolution ain't gonna matter because there is no longer a necessity, in the
classic Marxist sense of the word for that revolution.

As for WWII, to say capitalism was the cause is quite different than saying
competition for resources was the cause.  And saying capitalism was the
cause isn't half-enough.  What was it/is it about capitalism that caused the

As far as conciliatory notes, I don't bear any ill will to Mark or yourself
or anyone else over remarks that I think were totally inappropriate to the
issues.  People get passionate.  I work hard.  I fight hard, and I expect
others will also.  What surprises me most is how I can pound on the history
of the rate of profit and overproduction in the oil industry as the key to
the last 30 years of capital, and have it totally ignored as not being
scholarly, factual, or credentialled.... as if a linking of value, price,
and profit to the here and now of capitalist production wasn't the essential
starting point.

Like I said, maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, or maybe I did.

Is this horse dead yet?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Proyect" <lnp3 at>
To: <marxism at>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: One more time....


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