Re Re: Chamberlain and Daladier alive again?

Ralph Johansen michele at
Tue Jan 28 20:41:31 MST 2003

Gary MacLennan wrote:

To: marxism at
Subject: Re: Chamberlain and Daladier alive again?
From: Gary MacLennan <g.maclennan at>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:57:32 +1000
In-Reply-To: <3E32BF04.15906.386C93 at localhost>
Reply-To: marxism at
Sender: owner-marxism at


A suggestive comparison indeed.  Only a fool would have faith in Schroeder
and Chirac.  And I make a prediction now.  France will never use its veto
against the USA.

My knowledge though of the 39 period is limited to books!  I just have a
feeling now that there is a real depth to this anti-war movement which has
caught everyone by surprise.  Perhaps it is greater than in the 30s.

I see the anti-war tide as another manifestation of a deep anti-system
feeling which has gripped the youth of the world.  this has shown up in
various guises - anti-globalisation, anti-capitalism etc.

The hegemony of the powerful is slipping and they are increasingly being
driven to rely on force or power without virtue as the Japanese put it.




See the article below at the end, 'Internet Stokes Anti-War Movement'.

That does it! They'll simply have to curb email, that's all. Maybe tax
use prohibitively. Who knows, there must be coded terrorist messages
embedded in these exchanges that can be divined in order to furnish some
pretext to put a stop to this plotting and muttering, this harmful stirring
among the unwashed and the unwiped.

And of course you're right about Schroeder and Chirac, although I'd put it
in the context of the role of the Security Council: if that body is anything
than window dressing, it's to guarantee the security of the business and
constituents of the limited number of Council players, and once they've held
until they've got theirs, they would throw the Iraqi people, their own
people, the
assembled troops, the environment, and public opinion to the wolves without
the slightest demurrer - IF that public protest is not strong enough to
either give them pause, or in the alternative to give them a populist
strategy that
will also profit them.



Internet Stokes Anti-War Movement,1284,57310,00.html

Wired   January 21, 2003

Internet Stokes Anti-War Movement

By Leander Kahney

This weekend's anti-war protests were the first mass demonstrations in
memory to occur before a conflict, a testimony to the organizing power of
the Internet, observers say.

While the Vietnam-era anti-war movement took years to gather momentum,
hundreds of thousands of protestors turned out in dozens of U.S. cities on
Saturday to protest a possible war in Iraq.


The disparity of protestors is a sign the anti-war movement has gone
mainstream, observers said, and it's thanks not to the media, but to
hundreds of anti-war websites and mailing lists.

"Never before in human history has an anti-war movement grown so fast and
spread so quickly," wrote historian and columnist Ruth Rosen in the San
Francisco Chronicle. "It is even more remarkable because the war has yet to
begin. Publicized throughout cyberspace, the anti-war movement has left
behind its sectarian roots and entered mainstream culture."

Howard Rheingold, author of Smart Mobs: The Next Social Revolution, also
believes the Internet played a defining role in bringing the movement

"The last time the U.S. contemplated war -- 1991 -- the Internet was still
an isolated phenomenon, confined to a relatively small population of
enthusiasts," he wrote in an e-mail. "Now, not only are most of the citizens
online, but online activism has had years to mature and perfect its

"Saturday's rallies were unique in the long history of anti-war activism in
the U.S. in that, to my knowledge, never before have hundreds of thousands
of people protested a possible war," wrote Peter Rothberg, who is associate
publisher of The Nation and maintains the ActNow weblog, in an e-mail.

However, Rothberg said people took to the streets not because of the
Internet per se, but because of their shared opposition to a pre-emptive,
unilateral strike against Iraq.

"There's no question that the Internet has provided a terrific new tool for
organizers who are growing increasingly adept at employing the medium to
best advantage," he wrote. "I hesitate to give all or even preponderant
credit to the medium, though. I think the message, and the very real fact
that lots of folks oppose an invasion of Iraq, are what got people out on
the streets."

Nonetheless, protest organizers said the Net played a key role in
disseminating the anti-war message, motivating and mobilizing people, and
efficiently communicating details like travel plans.

"The Internet played a very significant role," said Sarah Sloan, an
organizer with International ANSWER, the group that planned the rallies. "It
made a major difference in getting our message out there, especially because
the mainstream media isn't covering the anti-war movement."

Sloan said for many people, joining the movement was as simple as typing
"anti-war" into Google and being directed to hundreds of anti-war websites.

The United for Peace website, for example, one of the anti-war movement's
major clearing houses, includes news, contacts, background information,
fliers, printable posters, contacts for scores of local activist groups and
comprehensive travel arrangements to the protests from 300 different U.S.

"Without that resource, it's hard to find out how to get involved," Sloan

Sloan said the Internet also allowed the Sunday protests to go
international. Protestors in 32 countries held street demonstrations.
"There's no way the event would have been international without the
Internet," she said.

Of the hundreds of different groups involved, almost all have websites and
e-mail lists. As well as inspiring, organizing and mobilizing people, the
Internet gives protestors the sense they are part of a larger movement.

"Before the Internet, people felt blacked out by the media, because it
doesn't represent their views," said Andrea Buffa, a spokeswoman for United
for Peace. "Now, because of the Net, they feel like they're part of a
movement. They're no longer isolated. It helps mobilize people, gets them to

United For Peace is organizing an Oil and War protest action on Feb. 4 at
local gas stations around the United States. Activists are encouraged to
print out the Web page and hand out copies at the pumps. "There's no way we
could get that information out all over the country without e-mail and the
website," said Buffa.

The range of online anti-war resources is big and growing., a
political website based in Silicon Valley, recently raised $400,000 through
10,000 or more individual donations to remake the 1960s "Daisy"
anti-nuclear-war ad.

MoveOn has proven adept at fundraising and lobbying politicians, and has
built a mailing list 600,000 strong.

A good example of the Internet's power to reach many people is the Protest
Posters website. Thrown up late last week, the site attracted 2,400 visitors
and 1,155 poster downloads by the weekend on the strength of a few e-mails
and links from other websites.

"I saw some of the posters at the San Francisco march," said Frank Leahy,
who helped create the site. "I thought that was pretty cool. Word gets
around fast."

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