FW: [Forum] Dumping/Deleting Vets to the Garbage Can

Craven, Jim jcraven at clark.edu
Tue Mar 25 18:43:10 MST 2003

I am sorry to clutter bandwidth but since some have asked for specifics (and
I do understand that well) here is what I was summarily written up for
taking me one step from firing. None of this was brought up in my meeting
with the Vice-president (who claimed not to be aware of my interactions with
this ROTC "Major" head of the ROTC program here when I asked about my
complaint against him and how it was being handled) After the meeting I am
nailed for "wondering" (an honest statement about my internal thought
processes) about his fitness to teach if he can accuse me publicly of
passing on porn and then refuse to give specifics. Result I am written up
and the materials used (which I just now found--but do not have all) for the
judgment they refuse to give me telling me I must find the materials they
used for a judgment against me to use in a complaint against him. Anything
Kafkaesque/Orwellian about any of this?

This will be my last transmission--hopefully--on this.

-----Original Message-----
From: Craven, Jim
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:23 PM
To: *FORUM at Clark College
Cc: Beyer, David; Dotson, Claude; Evans, Bob
Subject: RE: [Forum] Dumping/Deleting Vets to the Garbage Can

-----Original Message-----
From: Davis, Tom
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 5:29 PM
To: *FORUM at Clark College
Subject: RE: [Forum] Dumping/Deleting Vets to the Garbage Can

Response to your (Jim Craven) second paragraph below:  Assistant Professor
of Military Science.  The 'Professor' of Military Science in charge of the
entire ROTC program for its military branch at a given school.  As an
Assistant to that person I carry the dubious title of 'Assistant Professor'.
I do not pretend to carry the credentials of a tenured Assistant Professor
of a college or university.  I was given the title and it is what it is. I
much prefer 'instructor' or better yet 'facilitator'.

Response (Jim C): You should learn what the appropriate titles are and mean
before using or claiming them. Here you are an Adjunct Instructor (nothing
wrong or lowly about that, that is the title for all adjunct instructors);
At PSU, some carry the named title "Adjunct Professor" (when they have held
a professor title elsewhere and have been invited in for specified adjunct
appointments) or Adjunct Instructor when they hold instructor-level

To be sure the military is as much 'art' as it is 'science'.  The military
profession does carry the epistemological approaches you make reference to.
Without the 'art' of war the science of the military would be impossible to
implement.  I suppose that calling them 'Military Science' courses appear to
carry more weight than calling them 'Military Art'.

Fourth paragraph:  Two reasons for apology from last year: (1) When you
distributed the prongraphic material.  You did apologize and I accepted your
aplology.  The damage was done and can not be withdrawn, but your apoloigy
was sincere I accept it

Response (Jim C): Give the specific supposed "pornography" supposedly passed
on by me, give the specific supposed "apology" and the context in which it
was passed on (you mean I actually apologized for passing on "pornography"?
Really? Or is it I apologized for passing something on that YOU characterize
as pornography which, according to the U.S. Suprme Court, is in the eye of
the beholder and community).For the record, I have had pornography (really
vile stuff) passed on to me as a form of harassment. In all cases I have
passed it on to the authorities at the campus as well as certain federal
authorities. For the record, I am the whistleblower that turned in an
individual found by the Washington State Ethics commission to be using State
Resources to gather child pornography; for that I was and am subjected to
continual harassment through anonymous messages and vile pornography being
sent to my computer as well as being subject to ostracization by some of the
self-professed "good Chistians" and friends of the individual on whom I blew
the whistle on this campus.

For this vile charge, I will be bringing you up on charges with the Clark
Administration and watch what happens if you are not subject to the same
discipline to which I have been subject for supposed "intemperate remarks."
I will also be turning this email over to my attorney for consideration of
defamation charges against you for this reckless slur.

(2) When you referred to having 'our own Taliban types here on campus'.
Referring to those who would censure your comments.  If we had Taliban rule
on this campus you can say good-bye to all the women faculty, staff, and
students as well as this forum and probably much of the curriculum we enjoy.
You owed them an apology.  A third reason: You recently forwarded a comment
Pres. Bush made to the media that contained crude vulgarity.  That's
uncalled for in a public forum.  Knock it off.  I work for a state agency in
my civilian capacity and in that agency you would have been held accountable
for all three specific examples cited above.

Response(Jim C) Well I work here; an educational institution that deals with
all sorts of materials and passing them on for examination does not imply
endorsement; I work here not where you work. I passed on a quote from a
reputable biography on Bush. It was quite revealing about the self-confessed
proclivities (revenge and foul language) of that self-professed "born-again
Christian" Bush who made those vile remarks to a member of the press sitting
in a restaurant with his wife (had it been me at the time Bush might have
been on his way to the hospital). It was placed in the context of an article
about plans for revenge against Germany for not bowing down to Bush's
imperial ambitions and his constant need not to be contradicted. Who,
exactly, do you think you are? Don't you dare tell me that I cannot quote
the utterings of a public official who is responsible--not me--for any
vulgarity. You are really something. I am out of the Army (probably got out
before you were born) and I most certainly do not take orders from you
Major. Further the "vulgarity" uttered by Bush was passed on well AFTER your
original submission alleging that I had "many" things for which I should
apologize. Now you are reaching with new stuff to pile on to--read embellish
or leverage--that which  you didn't have when you made your original
charges; what does say about your own integrity?

As for Taliban types, that is exactly what some of the intolerant bigots,
unable to contemplate any positions other than their own, and who attempt to
suppress any positions other than their own are--on the left or the
right--and it is called an analogy by example or a metaphor--not an exact
equivalence--and anyone trained in elementary critical thinking and logic
would/should know that;and these Taliban types can be found everywhere
including here. You really need to get over yourself in my opinion.

Fifth paragraph:  I apoligize for not being specific in my first message to
you.  I did not keep the above examples but you sent them and they were
available for all of Clark to see and read.

Response (Jim C):You still have not been specific; your generalities,
masquerading as specifics (specifics would be an exact quote, date, time)
reminds me of what I witnessed as a child when, in 1954, my mother bought a
TV just so that she could show me the Army-Joe McCarthy Hearings that were
on live in April-May of 1954 (I was eight years old) where I learned about
the faces--and masks--of evil and the damages from megalomaniacal
demagogues, wreckless innuendo, secret lists etc.

Sixth paragraph:  My first message to you was not in open forum.  I prefer
to ask for corrections in private and make accolades in public when
possible.  The military hired me.  I work for and am paid by the U.S. Army
Reserves. On campus I'm considered Adjunct Faculty.  The Professor of
Military Science at Univ of Portland hired me.  I am part of UofP's Army
ROTC program.  The program here at Clark is an extension.  There is a cross
enrollment agreement between UofP and Clark College for this.  Before
starting my current assignment here I meet with the Dean of Instruction's
office and Dean Thornburg.  They both, in fact everyone here, has been a
great support.

Response (Jim C) an Assistant to someone with the title Professor is not an
Assistant Professor but rather exactly that: an Assistant [TO a Professor].
It goes Instructor, Adjunct Professor, Assistant Professor, Associate
Professor and Professor.

Seventh (last) paragraph:  I do not have issue with the subjects of your
activism.  As I said they are usually well worth looking at.  It is you
personal attacks on people that must be curtailed.  You obiously are very
passionate about your ideals but please do not allow it take over into the
personal attacks.

Finally, your comments directed to me were constructive.  Perhaps not
positive.  THANK YOU for not making your responses a personal attack.  I do
appreciate it.


Still my comments are specific and measured given the damaging and reckless
nature of your own charges. For your reckless and still unspecified and
potentially reputation-damaging charges (in my protected opinion) this
matter will be pursued further. We will see if there is one standard for
some and other standards for others on this campus.

Replies to this message will be sent to the entire list rather than the
original sender.

Forum mailing list
Forum at clark.edu http://mailman.clark.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/forum

PLEASE clip all extraneous text before replying to a message.

More information about the Marxism mailing list