Peter Grimes interview on Indymedia
Waistline2 at aol.com
Waistline2 at aol.com
Tue Nov 4 15:18:34 MST 2003
In a message dated 11/4/03 8:52:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, lnp3 at panix.com
For example, I include Peter
Gleick's website at: http://www.worldwater.org/, which is based on his book
"The World's Water: The Biennial Report on Freshwater Resources." The
problem is that current practices--centered on industrial farming--are
Agreed and herein lies the vision of tomorrow and an understanding of
yesterday. There is no shortage of water in the Southwest. To pose the question as
such runs counter to our vision and what is technologically possible - today.
"Current practices - centered on industrial farming" is the problem. This
reduces itself to the bourgeois property relations as it exist today. We have no
disagreement on this.
Soviet socialism has to be framed in a historical context and cannot be mixed
up with what we face today or blindly equated with bourgeois property
relations and applied science based a a specific curve of the evolution of human
knowledge. This is what is meant: dam building and the cultivation of land is
subject to the development of human understanding and applied on the basis of
property relations shaping the applied possible. The "applied possible means" how
one organizes resources to accomplish an objective based on an understanding
of what is possible and good for society.
It is not a question of socialism defying "human nature" or defying the law
governing the movement of matter, but rather a question of the incremental
expansion of knowledge of the material world - at least in respect to public
property versus bourgeois property.
For example - in my opinion, the failure of Khrushchev’s "Virgin Soil"
program was not a failure of socialism or rather public property relations; or
failure in attempting to usurp the law of nature and biological interactivity, but
rather an illogical attempt to solve an economic problem by political fiat.
Farming contains its own set of distinct laws that take shape on the basis of
locale and human interactivity. In other words the question has absolutely
nothing to do with Trotsky or Stalin for that matter. The question has to do with
women and nature and agricultural production as a subsistence imperative. How
this subsistence imperative is shaped of the basis of bourgeois property and
made manifest on the basis of industrial logic are two interactive aspects of
the social equation.
Politics get in the way and everything is political. Yes there is a shortage
- from the standpoint of sustaining the current form of social organization
and its underlying property relations. Of this we agree. Politics prevent us
from forming the question of this basis.
The problem coloring the vision of the past generation of communists,
Marxists and socialist - no matter what political tradition, was industrial logic and
what was collectively agreed to be possible on the basis of this logic.
Vision was limited to what was possible on the basis of industrial concepts and
logic and we have exceeded this framework spontaneously - on the bais of the
forward march of the material power of production and the advnace of general
science. A deeper problem faced the Soviet communists, that cannot be reduced to
"economic problems of socialism" or "bourgeois ideology for that matter."
I agreed, public property relations cannot exceed the laws governing nature
and biological interactivity.
Our current development of the means of production recast every social
question. A shortage of water in the Southwest was a very real material shortage in
history but not today The movement of humanity and peoples was govern by water
flow and water tables hundreds of years ago. What yesterday was a shortage is
not a shortage today. Why live where the water table is low?
In other words we are currently reconstructing the history of the historic
flow of population centers on earth and might still be a hundred of two years
away from this emerging as a concrete science of population.
PLEASE clip all extraneous text before replying to a message.
More information about the Marxism