[Marxism] Re: US SWP participation in UK anti-war protests

David Walters dwalters at lanset.com
Mon Nov 24 21:52:04 MST 2003


Peter,
   You assume that Louis drove the SWP symp off the list. This is false. 
I agree, Louis did not handle it well...when bringing in a 10 lb. 
stripped bass with 8lb test line, you don't start reeling the fish in 
hard, you set a light drag, let the fish take the line out and tire, 
and the GENTLY reel 'er in. Louis likes the reel 'er in fast and chance 
the line won't break. The person who wrote in was approaching the 
issues  she raised very honestly and others, including me, were dealing 
with the her in an honest fashion. Eventually she couldn't deal with 
the *totality of the criticism*...not just Louis'.

On the CL work in the demonstrations in the UK...is not unlike their 
work here in the USA, since we're talking the same organization, the 
same press, the same books, etc. Parameters are important to discuss, 
Peter, wouldn't you agree? The parameters of the CL/SWP are, and not to 
be to technical about it, political nut-jobs. You KNOW this, yet you 
try to find the honey inside outhouse anyway. They are in the UK, a 
dozen or so clones of the US SWP who oppose these demonstrations from 
from the get-go. They argue that there is "no revolution" going on in 
Iraq, ergo the demands for US withdrawal are of little consequence. 
I've discussed this with them here. They are loony on this and don't 
deserve this respect you seek to heap on them.

"Communist" work at these demonstrations? Yes, look at the SSP, don't 
look at the CL.  They are not communists since they are 
sectarians...through and through...Marx, Communist Manifesto, read same.

"Inter-imperialist rivalry"? Where, Iraq? This is their excuse NOT to 
condemn Blair? Really? Ugh, double ugh. This is from the same soup that 
has "The USA lost the cold war" written all over it? You expect me to 
take these guys seriously? Russia is workers state? Do you really want 
to debate this? THEY do...!

Ireland. Yes, good one there...and it's where, BTW, the SSP legacy in 
old Militant/CWI is going to bite them for sure, it's already having a 
small effect. The SSP needs to abandon their abstentionist 
proto-Militant view on the British occupation of Ireland and say so 
loud and clear. And yes, the SWP-US has the correct "position"...but it 
will not have an iota of influence. The MIM in the US has the same 
position...and it's worth the same as the SWP's...zero, since they have 
no audience at all, refuse to participate in the class struggle and all 
the other things we've talked about on this list ad-nauseum for years.

Pathfinder literature. Using you method, selling "Europe and America: 
Two
Speeches on Imperialism" is to be commended. OK, I know something, a 
little bit really, about the distribution of Trotsky's works. Using the 
same method, Peter, what's the difference between buying the same 
literature from, say,  the ISO, the Sparts and the Pathfinder 
International? I know one...the ISO or the UK-SWP actually BUILDS the 
demonstrations that Pathfinderites attend to sell literature to people 
who the same Pathfinderites *don't want to be there*. So...the CL and 
the SL are basically the same thing, based on your method I think. Oh 
yeah, they don't "push" Trotsky, the push Jack Barnes...actually hawk 
his book, on the class struggle in the US.

David Walters





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