Reply to Melvin P.

Waistline2 at Waistline2 at
Mon Sep 22 16:04:36 MDT 2003

[ converted from html by an anonymous worker drone ]

  In a message dated 9/22/03 1:01:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
  bendien at writes:

  Your error is exceptionally grave, because if you think that the
  bourgeoisie is not vitally concerned to prevent another Soviet
  Union, another China, another Vietnam, another Cuba, another
  Nicaragua, and so on, you are dead wrong.  The modern justification
  for imperialism is that all resistance is useless, because breaking
  with imperialism results in a civilisation which is worse, get it ?


What the people of Cuba, Vietnam and Nicaragua need is the overthrow
of the power of the bourgeoisie in America. .

Generally, I avoid much discussion on the Soviet Union because on
Marxline we have just arrived at a point where most no longer reject
the idea that capitalism is a bourgeois property relation in its
fundamentality. I would love a discussion on the meaning of a "planned
economy" but most think this refers to counting widgets, the party and
state and other nonsense. What is being referenced is the social power
of capital in the hands of individuals, which leads to competition
between the individuals. It is this competition that calls forth the
capitalist circuit of investment, that the "planned" in planned
economy is defined in relationship to.  The planning is not simply
creating structure to allocate resources, but the absence of
individual ownership of capital.

You of course are not qualified on any level to suggest to
revolutionaries in America, how we should understand the politics of
our imperialism and the actions - historical and present, of our
imperial bourgeoisie. You are not qualified because you lack an
elementary understanding of American history in a Marxist
meaning. Ours is not a debate but rather an attack on your
semi-fascist political position that wear the mask of
socialism. Anyone that advocates in today' world - under the guise of
Marxism and socialism, a bourgeois revolution in the less developed
countries is socialist-fascist.

I of course understand why you consider me and call me a black
racist. At my choosing my intent is to unravel the logic of your
politics and "theory" in a way that all comrades will understand. The
bottom line is that Marxline and Pen-L are merely stepping stones for
your efforts to be recruited by a sector of the bourgeoisie as hack
writer. The description of your politics as neocon socialism is
extremely accurate and well thought out.

I maintain that you advocate and advocated socialist leading a
capitalist revolution - your words, in 2003. I maintain that your
politics and thinking leads to a conclusion that prostitution - today,
is and can be a form of primitive accumulation of capital. This is not
a quirk but an imperialist ideological body of "knowledge."
Prostitution in today's world is a grave evil and sign of social decay
and outright slavery.

The fact of the matter is that in America industrial socialism has
never been appealing to an enormous section of the working class for
several reasons.  These reasons are tied to the curve of our
development as an industrial country in front of the Soviets and the
imperial bribery of the peoples of America - specially the
Anglo-American people. It is not simply the idea that socialism is
"bad" that confronts us (and it is bad speaking in terms of present
day America). Rather the question appears as the specific evolution of
white chauvinism and anti-communism, which in history is linked and
intertwined in our country. What we are dealing with is the ideology
of white chauvinism and anti-communism and various shapes of national
chauvinism and not some notion of people being aware of a worse
civilization. What in the past buttressed this ideology is a certain
level of material bribery of the Anglo-American people and broad
sections of the working class. This historic bribery had been and is
being further eroded and opens a new vista for revolutionaries.

One would have had to fallen from the moon with no sense perception
not to understand the elementary reality of American society as it has
existed forever.

In respects to the insane notion that "the people" - (exactly what
people is being referenced is not clear), believe that breaking with
imperialism "results in a civilisation which is worse" are you
speaking of the Argentina masses or the masses throughout Africa or
areas that have not yet reach the lever of Soviet industrialization?
"Worse" for whom? The most privileged sector of society? It is of
course you who do not get it, or rather you get it, from the
perspective of a socialist imperialist.

What the world people ponder - revolutionaries, is not the advent of a
"worse society" but the deadly military force of American
imperialism. How can you not understand this startling reality? This
is the point. The world people - revolutionaries, are not consumed
with the Soviet experience as such, nor is this the paramount
ideological block in the world working class movement.  No significant
section of the working class in America even thinks about the former
Soviet Union on any level. A small section of radicals are consumed
with the issue but they are no consequence to the working class at
present and was no consequence in the past.

It is not the Soviet experience that frighten the world working class
and world revolutionaries but the American experience as the
international hangmen of democracy and the enemy of the people of

The day of revolutionaries in America functioning as "support
committees" for the colonial revolts - "another China, another
Vietnam, another Cuba, another Nicaragua, and so on," is over. The
question is preparing the working class of America to carry out the
most revolutionary off all revolutionary task.  Amongst
revolutionaries in America everything in the world is discussed except
our own working class and our responsibility to organized the workers
for victories in the immediate struggle.

What face us - the workers, and our imperialism is not a question of
"another Soviet Union, another China, another Vietnam, another Cuba,
another Nicaragua, and so on." The issue is revolution in the imperial
centers and fully implementing the idea of the general line of Karl
Marx: victory to the workers in their current struggle.  I am of
course aware why the imperialist socialists avoid the question of our
own working class like the plague. Cowardice.  "Another China, another
Vietnam, another Cuba, another Nicaragua, and so on."  Yea . . .right,
what about the Third edition of the American revolution?  That is the

In terms of Biblical references you should not concern yourself with
the specifics of other peoples culture and tradition. It is really
none of your business.

Melvin P.

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