[Marxism] Fw: "No investigation, no right to speak":
cuibono at rcip.com
Sun Aug 22 01:24:02 MDT 2004
Carrol B. Cox (Ph.D.),
Asst. Prof of English (emeritus), Illinois State University, Normal, Illinois,
Residence: 409 Phoenix, Bloomington, IL 61701,
"Dan Elliott wrote:
> "Carrol" wrote:
Why the scare quotes? That is my name.
Carrol B. Cox (Ph.D.)
Asst. Prof of English (emeritus)
Illinois State University
Bloomington, IL 61701
> At last, someone who knows precisely the extent & limits of "Zionist lobby"
> power in the USA!
No. I have an opinion. If you have another one, argue it. I've said what
I have to say.
To which Dan Elliott is moved to respond:
Oh! Oh! Please don't be scared! Not of me -- I'm harmless. Putting your name in quotes was just a momentary lapse on my part.
Let me hasten to assure you I wasn't trying to frighten you, or to make others fear you. Since news of your fame hadn't yet reached my ears (or eyes, which boggle when confronted with interminable headers of the sort which preceded your post, & which I've learned to deal with by jumping to the chase) & all I had to go on was your signature, it somehow didn't seem appropriate to address you by your first name, as though I knew you personally or something.
So the quotes. An unfortunate gaffe on my part -- I do apologize for any discomfort I may have inadvertently caused you:)
Meanwhile, back at your "opinion":
What you said, Professor, is nonsense.
If all you have to offer is "an opinion", why did you abuse the present indicative* by presenting the following as unqualified factual:
"...That emphasis (a) separates the Iraq War
from its ultimate context in u.s. imperialism and (b) tends towards an
over-emphasis on the power of the Zionist lobby in the U.S. and thereby
diverts from exploring the willingness (even anxiousness) of the u.s.
ruling class over the decades to support Israel."
The fact is that your "opinion" and its expression on this list "diverts from" the pressing task of "exploring" the extent and limits of the power wielded by the Zionist Entity** in the US state, economy, and society in general. The real fact is that the "Zionist lobby", together with its backers & its economic base, is a major COMPONENT of "US Imperialism". It's part OF it, not something apart from it.
No major decisions are made by the Imperialist "General Staff" without the concurrence of the Zionist Establishment. We know this because the General Staff itself is composed of proven, dedicated Zionist operatives, both Jewish and Christian/quasi-Christian.
Indeed, if you heuristically apply the time-honored legal principle "cui bono", all that is strange, illogical, about US Middle East & "War on Terror" policy suddenly falls into place. Once we posit the security & regional hegemony of Eretz Yisroel as the top priority, it all makes perfect sense.
Is not ample evidence available for a showing of probable cause that the Tail is in this case wagging the Dog? That the oft-heard complaint "The Dirty Imperialists are Using Isreal For Their Own Purposes" is nonsense? That the opposite is closer to the actual state of affairs? That those members of the Ruling Class or the upper stratum of Retainers who dare openly challenge the course set by the PNAC group are few and far between?***
This hypothesis is supported by a body of work which meets the most exacting standards of scholarship & journalism. I'll provide full publishing info at the end of this post.
(A word of caution: if you haven't read this stuff, you're so far behind the curve on this you have no right to "an opinion" -- not among those who consider themselves scholars; even less among folks actively trying to change the balance of class power).
"If really important sectors of the ruling class and their political
allies wished to resist the Zionist lobbies, they would not have all
that much difficulty in doing so." How do you know this? Did you take a poll?
Or are you simply regurgitating what you take to be The ("progressive")Conventional Wisdom?
>"The apparent success of AIPAC probably reflects not so much its own power..." <
Are you trying to insinuate that the success of AIPAC & allies in determining the course of US military/colonial policy is only "apparent"? That it might be an illusion? I guess to the good folks back there in Normal & environs, such a notion might seem plausible -- but I doubt it would be well received in Najaf or Fallujah.
Do you seriously intend to maintain to Cynthia Mckinney that the power & the money which was mobilized to get her out of Congress two years ago, was nothing but so much smoke & mirrors?
But you remember to protect yourself here, with a "probably". But why is your take any more "probable" than this Weber's? & if the best you can come up with is "probably", why not make it clear that you're guessing, speculating, instead of posing, presenting yourself to the uninformed, as an "expert" -- ?
"...but rather the fact that ruling figures would _for their own motives_ support Israel whether AIPAC existed or not!..."
So, are you on intimate terms with "ruling figures" to the extent that they share with you their reasons for supporting "isreal"? Or perhaps your qualifications include a degree in paranormal communication?
I'm sorry to be so blunt, really I am, to a nice old gentleman like yourself, emeritus and all, but you don't seem to be aware of the distinction between speculation on the one hand and serious discussion of data, of evidence, on the other.
All the evidence I have been able to obtain points to certain conclusions about the questions we are discussing.
Conclusion No. 1: If your objective is to weaken or dissolve the power of the US Imperial State, to talk of the "US Ruling Class" and the "Zionist Lobby" as though they are two separate entities is to fall into a fatal error. The fact is that Jewish Zionists form a very large part of said class. (In capitalism, relative magnitudes are best measured in dollar terms, rather than simple population numbers; when measuring the military balance, the relative technological level is more important than numbers of troops or even of net firepower.)
Yes -- the Jewish Super Rich have been closely associated with the founding families of the North American Super Rich since 1654. In the earliest days, Jewish Capital was confined to certain sectors of the economy, and discrimination against Jews was common. Now however, it should be obvious to anyone who pays attention that in the last couple of decades, something like parity, both social and financial, has finally been achieved. And in the spheres of both the Ideological and the Political State Apparatus, something more than parity.
But a burned child fears the fire. Just as the CPUSA, still traumatized by the Smith Act/Huac era, freaks out if anyone suggests they aren't or shouldn't be faithful servants of the Democratic Party, most "progressive" Jewish folks, including many who pride themselves on "Class Consciousness", freak out at any mention of contemporary Jewish affluence.
Many attribute this reaction to the psychological effects of "Holocaust Trauma", a syndrome diligently cultivated and promoted by the Zionist State Ideological Apparatus. (In this case I am not referring to "isreal" or "The Jewish State" of Herzl's vision, but to the Zionist sector of the US Imperial State Apparatus operating in the USA and in other real estate controlled by same, eg. Haiti, Panama, Guatemala, etc etc.)
This conditioned response has been very useful to both Zionist entities** -- I mean both the one based in Palestine and the one based mainly in NYC with an outpost in DC -- by making it possible to shout down anyone trying to present to the US public a view of events which conflicts with the "Exodus Version".
But now that the Ruling Class, with full "zionist-lobby" support, has started imposing what looks like the early phases of a full-fledged police state, it's time to look more closely at what's really going on. Time to get past "opinions", Conventional Wisdom, Prevailing Mythologies, Op-ed page Crackpot Reality -- we're talking about survival -- and look at evidence. To look FOR evidence, because you won't find it on the evening news -- or in The Nation:)
One good (really prerequisite) source for evidence is (of course) Dr. Val Burris' Power Structure Research website -- here's the link: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~vburris/whorules/
Another good starting pt is "The Corporate Library". Sorry the link isn't handy -- just google for it, & probably find troves & troves of stuff in the propinquity.
Since the "Zionist Lobby" (sic) obviously plays a major part in current US policy decision-making -- just how major can be debated long enough to assess the roles of AIPAC, ADL, JINSA, PNAC, the so-called "neo-cons" et al, & the funding of same, as well as of the Demopuglican Tweedlopoly -- it seems to me that it would be useful if a team of progressive Jews would provide the rest of the left with a scholarly class analysis of to use the synecdoche preferred by the Zionist Establishment) "The Jewish Community"; one covering the places occupied, roles played, and capital resources controlled by the various Jewish sectors & strata, both those which are pro-Zionist (together with their "Christian Zionist" & other close allies),& and also by those calling themselves "liberal/Left/'progressive'/anti-Imperialist/anti-Zionist", within the overall class structure & "power process" of US Capitalism.
Anyway, no more jive "opinions" until you've at least read Brenner's first three books, Lee O'Brien's book, and Jeff Blankfort's recent writing on the subject. If you think you have something more authoritative to offer, offer it. If not, why try to pontificate on things you know so little about?
Lester Willis Young Professor of Hard Knocks,
Dept. of Tricknological Research
Greater New Mt. Hermon Rinzai Baptist Church,
16th & Jay Streets,
Sactomato CA 95814
Office hrs 4-6PM Tuesdays
*You remember how much trouble Clinton got into, don'tcha?
*** (Hollings is evidence that such people do exist -- but will he fare better than Findley, McCloskey, the crew of the Liberty, Andrew Young, Rep. McKinney? Time will tell, but if I was him I'd watch my back.)
**An important question arises when deciding whether to emphasize the phenomenon's bi-polar character by referring to two "Zionist entities", or, by describing it in Herzlian terms as a unitary "World Zionism", to emphasize the Oroboros-like interpenetration of each pole by the other:
"Which came first, the Chicken or the Phanatic?"
"American Jewish Organizations and Israel", by Lee O'Brien; Institute for Palestine Studies, Wash DC 1986;
"Jews in America Today", by Lenni Brenner, Lyle Stuart Inc, Seacaucus NJ 1986. Chapter 3 beginning on p. 58 is particularly relevant to the current discussion.
"The Iron Wall: Zionist Revisionism from Jabotinsky to Shamir" , L Brenner, Zed Books, London 1984;
"Zionism in the Age of the Dictators", L Brenner, Independent Pub. Group, 1983.
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[ More results from sf.indymedia.org ]
Another great source is "Zionist FAQ's"; also "Famous Zionist Quotes" -- I don't have the URL's handy but you can Google them, or visit Indymedia.org.il ,(IMC Israel), & check Search.
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