[Marxism] Re: The Imperialist Squeeze on Sudan
gojack10 at hotmail.com
Sun Aug 29 10:26:52 MDT 2004
Lou Proyect thought...
<<You don't seem to get it. Let me try again. The ZNet piece was really
quite good. It urged antiwar activists to oppose US or imperialist
intervention without getting associated with the gangsters in Khartoum,
who would be about as capable of defending the sovereignty of the
country as Saddam Hussein was of defending Iraq. This is abc. Reflecting
on your original swipe at this article, it astonishes me that you would
even think otherwise. Well, maybe not...>>
Well who is 'getting associated with the gangsters in Khartoum', Lou? This
sort of argumenatative dishonesty has similarity to declaring Trotskyists to
be agents of Nazi Germany, saying that Lenin was returning to Petrograd
sponsored by the Germans, or the more modern day ABB stuff of labelling
Nader's campaign as being Republican subversion. It's a true sign of
kneejerk defensiveness that declares only that no logical rebuttals or other
opinion can be allowed for 'our side' on a matter. It's a hysteria where
that really is the only real argument, used to cut off debate. Chairman Lou
has now declared that I defend 'gangsters in Khartoum'. And he counters
with a methodology built around punching into computer browsers.. Sudan
This media info culling is not a good substitute to consistently opposing
the militarism of our own government, Lou. Solidarity campaigning for the
Fur people and their dar in New York City is not building a movement against
US troops being stationed and used in Africa. Though I know that you are
deeply concerned about the injustices that have occurred to the Fur. No
doubt you will try to help these people for the rest of your life.
<<Sudan is a complex mixture of class, ethnicity and religion. Sorting out
the contending factions and their political interests requires thought
and concentration. We need more of this, not less. Here are some of the
questions that challenge us:
1. Is the claim for self-determination by the Southern Sudanese just?
2. Is there any basis for claiming that Sudan is a slave society?
3. Is the "Islamic radicalism" of the Northern region objectively
4. What is the role of the environmental crisis in precipitating the
most recent crisis in Darfur?
Now, I informed you that a google search might reveal some useful
information on Sudan. Just to show you concretely what I am talking
about, I just did a search on Sudan + environmental and came up with the
following. I would suggest to you that this is the kind of background we
need, not simply reciting the fact that there is oil in the country.>>
What's at the heart of Lou Thought is simply that he feels that the Sudanese
government carries the main blame for Darfur, rather than any US imperialist
squeeze in the region. So the chairman from Kansas speaks out on what is
necessary for the non-gangsters of Sudan to do about the gangsters there in
the government. Though he remains to a great degree silent on what his own
US government should do, which is to go take a flying fuck off and out of
Africa. The issue is not Darfur and Khartoum. The issue is imperialism
versus self determination of an entire continent.
<<The only way that Sudan can overcome ethnic strife is by uprooting
national oppression just as the Bolsheviks did. The Russian Empire was a
prisonhouse of nations, even though Russia was colonized by the West. To
sweep the problem of national oppression under the rug is not only
anti-Marxist, it is counter-revolutionary.>>
Of course, nobody has done such a thing. This is all in Proyect's head.
The problem of national oppresssion everywhere is a great problem, Lou.
Glad to see that you agree. And I agree with Jack Barnes that industrial
workers are an important sector of the working class, too. Using this
methodology Lou would have only talked about the crimes of the Czar if US
troops had invaded the Russian Empire of that time. And Lou would have
rushed to represent industrial workers with Militant sales goals.
<<Khartoum seeks to keep the South in a subordinate position just as
Baghdad, Ankara and Tehran seek to keep the Kurds in a subordinate
position. The Kurds were fucked over long before Europe and the USA
became a factor in the Mideast.>>
Yes. True. Glad to see that we agree. Were you implying otherwise simply
because I think that our main focus should be on the European/ US
imperialist side taking on these issues? Why so then? Is it not a given
that when imperialists begin to insert themselves into ancient conflicts
that all hell breaks loose? That's why socialists in the imperialist
countries should focus on calling for Europeans and US out of the conflicts,
rather than 'trying to understand' details of extremely complicated issues,
and then taking sides that always conincidentally seem to be alongside the
imperialist governments' side taking, too. Amazing coincidence it always
This stuff has already been over around and around in circles with Kosova,
Bosnia, and East Timor. And how many socialists are talking about,
campaigning for, or calling out for the need for 'Kosovar self
determination'today? And being aware that the Kurds need self determination
is secondary to being aware that a major portion of this community is now
working with the US against Arab self determination and the self
determination of all nationalities in the region, Arabs, Persians, and Kurds
alike, not to mention many others.
Supporting self determination around the globe I vow to talk less about
gangsters in Khartoum, and more about gangsters in New York City. And
against gangsters in Texas, too, Lou. But if any worker down here wants to
know, I will speak out for self determiination for the Fur in Sudan from
Khartoum gangsterism. I would be revolutionary shurker if I did not.
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