[Marxism] State Capitalism and the writings of Kautsky

Ian Pace ian at ianpace.com
Sun Dec 19 16:01:36 MST 2004

From: "ameritech acoount" <stansmith44 at ameritech.net>

>I notice that the advocates of state capitalism try to push the question on 
>the tertiary issues so as to avoid the real question. And they try to make 
>the subject under discussion as abstract as possible, which leaves a lot of 
>room for maneouvering. Then we get pushed into discussing what this or that 
>term means to you and me.

>     The real issue is do you defend China or the Cuban revolution when 
> they are threatened by US imperialism? State capitalist organizations like 
> the ISO emphatically do not. They support the overthrow of the Cuban 
> government by the "workers". Which means they would support overthrowing 
> all revolutions that have occurred in the real world. The views of the ISO 
> on Cuba are very, very similar to Kautsky's "socialist" attacks on the 
> Russian revolution.

>    These state capitalists would defend "independent unions" in Cuba 
> organizing to overthrow the Cuban revolution. They would be giving left 
> cover to imperialist attacks, just as Kautsky did. These state capitalists 
> deliberately lie and distort reality to twist it to fit their 
> pro-imperialist views on revolutions and workers states. And to think they 
> have gall to say they do that in the name of defending Trotsky's ideas!

I'd put the question even more starkly - does one defend bourgeois 
governments, and those complicit with Western imperialism, against 
ultra-reactionary movements, either fascist or Stalinist (and to me, 
supporting Stalinists is no better than supporting fascists)? In particular, 
when these movements manage to draw upon a degree of support from the 
'workers' (as right-wing populists sadly often seem to manage)? I sort of 
feel in sympathy with Trotsky on defending a third world fascist regime 
against a Western liberal imperial overthrow, but find this position hard to 
defend amongst third world comrades.

I realise these sorts of questions got very heated once in disputes between 
the Maoists and the Trotskyites over Shining Path in Peru.


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