[Marxism] RE: Voting by the U.S. Left--and the main stategic goalof2004

Mark Lause MLause at cinci.rr.com
Sun Feb 22 08:53:03 MST 2004

You guys such are a trip!  I'm going to set aside for now the specific
uses of empirical data for understanding the world...

Tony argues that voting Green is meaningless because the Greens are
"pro-capitalist," but then argues that ballots for socialist parties are
also meaningless.   He then describes the biggest problem we face as the
fact "that the majority of the US population sees the whole process as
rigged and therefore they feel that their participation is quite
meaningless."   (Clearly, what we see as the problem depends on what
project we are pursuing.  What Tony sees as the biggest problem is what
I see as a crisis of legitimacy for the ruling class.)  

...And just I'm wondering what does mean anything, Jim F.'s email pops
up on he browser, channeling Engels...who died in 1895, was never more
interested in what was going on in the US than in Europe, and drew most
of his understanding of America through the eyes of isolated dogmatists
like Sorge.  Look, if a 21st century American radical understanding of
the racial and class hierarchies in our society in our times depends on
going that far around Robin Hood's barn, we might as well just pack our
bags and head for the detention centers now.  We look at what face now
and figure it out as best we can on that basis.

He adds, "No third party is ever going to be able to challenge the two
major parties, unless one of the two collapses the way the Whigs did in
the 1850s, thereby opening the door to the GOP."  This reflects the same
kind of oddly religious faith in "economic conditions," "historical
forces" or "social contradictions" separate and apart from what PEOPLE

Historically, those discontented with the two-step dance of the Whigs
and Democrats kicked down that door.  For years, the Free Democratic,
the Free Soil and the Liberty Parties undermined the stability of that
older party system, created divisions in the ruling class, and
ultimately made alternatives other than the Republicans impossible.
That is what we are discussing here.

Of course, we could denounce everything we might do independently--and
other people are doing independently--as meaningless.  ...or maybe we
can get John Edwards to channel us an Engels with some post-1895

Mark L.

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