[Marxism] Fahrenheit 911: Less From Moore (from The BlackCommentator) re: D. Quarter and J. Craven)

David Quarter davidquarter at sympatico.ca
Fri Jul 9 11:30:32 MDT 2004


 I think it's pretty obvious he was "shorthanding" it, although I can 
see that with political consciousness  at the level that it is in the 
U.S., how this might imflame already existing  hatred of middle 
easterners and muslims. 

  I don't however see it as a stretch to characterize the Saudi elite 
as "sinister", beside the fact the Saudi Arabia is a "colonized" 
country. If it it inappropriate to point out the crimes of the Saudi 
elite because the U.S. bares the brunt of responsibility for them, 
then I imagine it is likewise innapropriate to condemn Israel's 
crimes since, like Saudi Arabia, it is type of colony of the U.S.. 

Also, are you denying that Zionists aren't a considerable force in 
the U.S establishment? Is all the key officials in Washington with 
ties to Israel of no consequence of U.S. foreign policy in the middle 
east? All that lobbying by AIPAC and like-minded groups, all the 
visits to Israel by politicians? The billions of aid money would keep 
flowing in irrespective of who was in the U.S. establishment., you 


Date sent:      	Fri, 9 Jul 2004 10:03:35 -0400
To:             	marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu
From:           	Mike Friedman <mikedf at mail.amnh.org>

> The problem is that it is not merely the "Saudi elite" that is being 
> criticized, nor is the S.e. being criticized in a way that puts the 
> blame for its actions where it belongs: on U.S. imperialism. In the 
> first place, Moore, shorthanding it perhaps, for the cogent viewer, 
> refers to "Saudis," such as "Saudis being allowed to leave the 
> country after 9/11." Rather sinister of those "Saudis," don't you 
> think? And the Saudi elite is the elite in a colonized country, 
> whatever their wealth. Maybe they do invest in the U.S. economy to 
> the tune of 7% of our GNP. But that hardly makes them the threat to 
> "our way of life" that Moore makes them out to be. The overall 
> picture is hardly flattering to Saudis, in general, and presents them 
> as somehow sinister, falling right into the administration's 
> anti-Arab crusade.
> >
> >Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 15:07:17 -0400
> >From: "David Quarter" <davidquarter at sympatico.ca>
> >[...]
> >According to WHO?
> >
> >The criticism of the Saudis elite in the film was IMO fair.  That
> >being said, I think the criticism below is valid as well as there are
> >factions within the U.S. political establishment, with the Zionists (or
> >individuals with close business or political ties to Israel) happening
> >to be one of the most (if not the most) powerful one.
> >
> >If you can't understand the part this plays out in some of the policy
> >decisions taken by the U.S. government. in the middle east, then
> >you are blinding yourself to reality.
> Your reality, perhaps. Not Washington's. Not Israel's. Not the 
> Iraqui's, Haitian's, etc.
> Contrast with Jim C's comment, below, which I would ditto, ditto, 
> ditto. In light of one of Moore's avowed aims, reaching sectors of 
> the (white) working class that wouldn't otherwise be reached, what 
> Moore did, in some parts of the film, is called pandering. He 
> pandered to some of the basest attitudes among our working class. He 
> defeats his own purpose, because you can't justify racism and then 
> expect folks to question imperialist war.

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