[Marxism] RE: Who is David Cobb?
gojack10 at hotmail.com
Fri Jul 16 09:48:59 MDT 2004
But Paul, you did take a position. Your position was clear, too, just like
Cobb's position is as clear as all the other anybody but Bush crowd. Your
position is simply put, that the Democrats are better than the Republicans.
Your response illustrates very clearly (to me at least) why the left has no
significant popular roots in the U.S. You put a lot of things in my mouth
that never came out of them to begin with. You arrogantly tilt at
windmills.. I really wasn't taking any position as much as providing
counter evidence to the article on Cobb.>>
What is so sad about this position you take that the DP is better than RP,
is that all the evidence is exactly totally to the contrary to what you
assert as something that should be so obvious to us all. And since the
evidence is actually that the Democrats are exactly as bad for us a as the
Republicans are, you try to spread a smoke screen about winning local
elections as being how to animate building a new mass movement. But you
have no evidence for that, either. Local elections are won for activists
after the mass movement is built, not as forerunner to it.
<<But against the most fundamental
statement concerning building mass movements out of taking control of local
governments you have nothing to say except, "I don't believe that's the way
you build mass movements." Hmm? How do you build them in the present (not
the 30s or 60s)? I've seen more come out of the support that local
governments can provide to organizing at other levels. Paul>>
Did the Civil Rights Movement or the Women's Movement or the AntiVietnam War
Movement get their main impetus from electing local officials first? And
was it organizing to get nicer people into local offices back then how those
movements were constructed? You ask how to build a movement today, and the
answer is by certainly not by just trying to elect 'better' people to
office. And the answer is also that mass movements will only be constructed
by opposing the Democratic Party, not by telling people to go out and vote
Edwards and Kerry, as Cobb and you want to do. Mass movements are built
around inspirational ideas, not sordid, compromised, selling off of the
What is most disturbing about the pseudo-socailist 'anybody but Bush' camp,
is the absolute spinelessness of the attitude. It's the attitude that
something great is being risked by not pushing for voting for the class
enemy, Kerry How can a movement be built for change with such a spineless
mentality? To me, it recalls the spinelessness of socialists that will not
build a movement against the US military, simply because they say that there
is no activism around the issue as of yet. Translation; we will not push for
what is unpopular at the moment, because we would seem so unreal and
Spinelessness masquerading as pragmatic realism! It makes one want to puke.
And that's what the working class sees in liberalism and liberals. They
see spineless wimps, not pragmatists. And they are bored with it all, and
stay home. It's not the attitude of standing up for class independence that
makes the US Left miniscule, Paul. It's the attitude of constantly running
to elect Kerrys and Edwards to office, even when that's clearly not what
anybody really wants.
Cobb is a jelly fish building nothing, and not a grand strategic pragmatist.
Even all the Al Frankens and Michael Moores and Norman Solomons come out
looking like spineless wimps, with this anybody-but Bush, Reagan, or
Goldwater stuff. Gus Hall pushed this crap along with the Russian CP. They
built zip. We go through this nonsense every four years. Paul, you should be
ashamed of yourself. I have not been unfair to you.
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