[Marxism] Hi, new to list, and a question

Jose G. Perez elgusanorojo at bellsouth.net
Thu Mar 11 19:00:11 MST 2004

Welcome to the list, Jack. As a list, it doesn't have "a line" on
something like ABB or Nader. 

But on Nader and the Greens, from my point of view they both represent
in general the same thing, a groping towards independent politics by
working people based on a realization, in some cases almost instinctive,
in others very thought-through, that  both the Democrats and Republicans
represent interests fundamentally inimical to our own.

As to the current Green-Nader situation: Until the end of the year,
Nader was quite happy to seek the Green Party's nomination. However, the
Green party has set up this whole primary and state convention process
culminating in a convention at the end of June. For an *independent*
candidacy, i.e., one outside the two-party system, that is really very
late, too late. And the green leadership was unable or unwilling to
offer Nader whatever informal assurances he required.

Nader for some reason did not feel he could BOTH seek the green nod AND
pursue an independent campaign at the same time. So he decided to forego
a run for the green nomination, instead launching his own campaign

That's presented the Greens with a fait accompli and a stark choice. The
fait accompli is for all those ABB and "safe states" Greens, there is
going to be someone running against Kerry and Bush on the Left, like it
or not. That makes the fight to prevent the Greens from running a REAL
campaign pretty much irrelevant, insofar as the 2004 election is

That is a done deal. And it is obvious from the initial opinion polls
that Nader's independent campaign is just as attractive as it was when
he was technically a Green candidate in 2000. The stark choice is that
Greens either get on board with Nader, and do it NOW, or get condemned
to irrelevance. 

Unfortunately, the Greens by this infantile setup of playpen primaries
and state conventions they have a really hard time getting ANYONE to
attend have put themselves in a position where they can't make a
decision until it is way too late, by the end of June. Frankly, I am
completely unable to stir in myself even the faintest whisper of
enthusiasm to go to a "consensus" run meeting to argue for the Greens
doing TOO LATE what they should have had the good sense to do LAST year,
which is to offer Nader their nomination. 

This play-acting at being a "big" party like the Democrats and
Republicans, together with the absolutely insufferable petty-bourgeois
talk shop "consensus" rule, is going on while you've got Nader going
around attracting hundreds of people to meetings in places like Austin.

I assume the rational, pro independent political action greens will take
a look at party rules, take a look at reality, and choose the latter. 

And I'll go back to a green meeting if and when they get rid of a
structure based on where the slaveowners decided to put a county line
100+ years ago and adopt a rule that decisions are by majority vote. On
everything. For regular decisions they have consensus and for internal
elections they've got this ultracomplicated "democratic" voting system
that even I don't understand -- and I got 800 on math in the SAT's. 

And if that drives out of the party the Birkenstocks and granola crowd,
so much the better. If the greens as currently constituted had seen
their way clear to doing something USEFUL by now in this election cycle,
I might feel more inclined to taking a live-and-let-live line towards
the kumbaya, new-age-shopkeeper and guilty-liberal elements. But that
isn't the case.

There's people fighting within the Greens to nominate Nader. That's what
Peter Camejo's candidacy in the Green parimaries and caucuses
represents. But there is such utter, complete confusion and paralysis in
the Green ranks now that I think if people go to green meetings now,
they should just move that whatever body it is irrevocably endorse Nader
NOW and become a Nader for President committee, and let the chips fall
where they may. 

There is only so much of play acting at electoral cretinism that regular
people can stand, and I think the Green "primaries" and "presidential
race" have pretty much exhausted the available supply for this year.


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