[Marxism] Donal going green
plf13 at student.canterbury.ac.nz
Tue Mar 23 16:41:24 MST 2004
>>And, of course, pan-nationalism in Ireland always leads into adaptation
> to imperialism and then outright collaboration because bourgeois
> nationalism in Ireland is, essentially, an impossibility.
> Yes, and Gerry Adams and Martin Maguinness (those bourgeois scoundrels)
> along with Fidel Castro and Ernesto Guevara (scum-bag bourgeoisie all) -
> will never lead a decent revolution.
> Not at least according to Trotsky Volume 7 Chapter 5 Verse 3....
> Such a combination of ignorance and arrogance are hard to find, Phil!!
> Meanwhile, we will conduct the long struggle despite the fools...
> Is mise
Donal, I think you're getting a bad chip on your shoulder and a very
petty frame of mind.
I never mentioned Adams and McGuiness. My comment above, which was
mainly about 1921, was *the republican orthodoxy* on pan-nationalism for
decades. If you want to change that understanding and that orthodoxy,
fair enough. But at least be open about it. And don't get on your high
horse, when some of us are perfectly happy with the old republican
orthodoxy about pan-nationalism.
Your comments about Castro and Guevara are bizarre, as is your silly
comment about Trotsky. Since I'm not a Trotskyist, your attempt to make
out that someone who disagrees with pan-nationalism can only do so on
the basis of some narrow Trotskyist orthodoxy/text is simply downright
I disagree with pan-nationalism in Ireland because, in terms of Irish
politics, I am a Connollyist, not a Trotskyist. I disagree with
pan-nationalism because I adhere also to the basic long-time orthodoxy
of republicanism, which has consistently opposed pan-nationalism.
But, of course, you would have exposed your own politics if you had've
said, "Not at least according to Connolly Volume 2 Chapter 5 Verse
3...." Or, "Not at least according to Gerry Adams, 1978. . ."
It's interesting that you regard Connolly's socialist-republicanism and
even orthodox republicanism, including that held by the Provos for most
of their history, as now being a "combination of ignorance and arrogance".
I would suggest the real ignorance is your own inability to learn from
Irish history and the lessons of what pan-nationalism is and where it
Your "long struggle" is actually turning out to be nothing more than the
neo-colonialist politics that a whole range of former national
independence movements ended up converting to. many of us have seen it
all before, indeed we've seen it far too often, to be impressed that you
and the Provos are somehow different. Let alone in anywhere near the
category of Fidel Castro and Che Guevara. Like Che said, in the
imperilaist era there is either "socialist revolution or caricature of
Since the Provos have *explicitly rejected* socialist revolution, they
are, in the words of one of my great heroes (Che) producing merely the
"caricature of revolution". Indeed, even calling it a caricature now
would give it too much credence.
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