[Marxism] Time to move on

David Quarter davidquarter at sympatico.ca
Fri May 7 20:39:58 MDT 2004

From:           	Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com>

> David wrote:
> >The other interesting point that Lou's inadvertently raises is  
> >exactly is schizophrenia? Laypeople, with not real knowledge of
> >labeling for schizophenia, commonly associates the 'disorder' 
> >hearing voices and delusions.
> This is starting to take us away from the agenda of Marxmail. I 
> that anybody who wants to have a final say on the question do 
so and then 
> we move on. I myself have said everything I wanted to say.

Here's my final say too, Lou.

(1) Is the response below your way of taking the high moral 
ground:" I am too worthy to answer you"?

(2) Alternatively, is it that you haven't got a clue about what 
psychiatry is really about, but would rather not not acknowledge 
this openly on the list? 

(3) Or is this just an evasive way of getting out of an debate that 
you know you won't win?

(I suppose question 2 and 3 are essentially asking the same 

I'm also curious to know, since I've been a victim of it myself, where 
you feel Marxists should stand on the issue of psychiatric 
oppression? I actually think this is quite revelant to Marxism and 
thus the "agenda of Marxmail". 

-- Some common forms of psychiatric oppression currently 

(1) forced drugging -- be for it or against it?

(2) exlectroconvulsive shock "therapy" [sic!] -- be for it or 			
	against it?

(3) Forced institutionalization (one might think this is essentially 
synonymous with force drugging, but in fact one can now receive a 
court order to take medication, without actually being locked up) -- 
be for it or against it?

(4) Civil rights protections for persons institutionalized in mental 
institutions -- be for it or against it?

-- Some additional concerns raised by activists opposed to 
psychiatric abuses: 

(5) Transparency on all of the known side-effects of psychiatric 
medications --be for it or against it?

(6) Forced drugging of children -- be for it or against it (this topic 
should obviously fall within the category of psychiatric oppression, 
although since children are deemed to be property of their parents, 
I distinguish it from the other forms)?

I obviously don't expect an answer from you of any of the questions 
 raised since as you say, you "have said everything [you] wanted 
to say"  and "we [must] move on".


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