[Marxism] Re: Reply to Joe (Oct 17) re Clinton and what the warisdoing "t...

Octob1917 at aol.com Octob1917 at aol.com
Mon Nov 22 17:53:11 MST 2004


In a message dated 11/22/2004 12:57:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
ffeldman at bellatlantic.net writes:
Joe sees chauvinism in my identification with the class-struggle and
revolutionary-democratic history of the oppressed and exploited of my
wicked country, which happens to be the dominant oppressing power of
earth today.

Reply:

The white American worker occupies a different status and position on the 
economic ladder than his black or Latino counterpart. This is why the national 
question, as it pertains to minorities, particularly the oppressed black 
community, is of prime importance in any revolutionary movement in the US today. 
White workers have enjoyed the fruits of their country's position of an oppressor 
nation, both at home and abroad, and continue to do so today. Yes, they are 
workers in respect of their relationship to the mode of production at home, and 
compared to their own ruling class, but at the same time they constitute a 
layer of oppression vis-a-vis black and Latino workers at home and workers in the 
developing world.

Another example of this type of relationship between workers exists in the 
UK, where English workers have typically enjoyed the fruits of their nation's 
status as an oppressor nation at the expense of their Scottish, Welsh and Irish 
counterparts, as well as workers in the developing world who've also seen 
their nations colonised by the English ruling class.

Marx and Engels wrote against this type of relationship iro the Irish 
Question, urging the English working class to support Irish independence as necessary 
a step on the way to their own emancipation. Break up the UK and you weaken 
it as an oppressor nation internationally.

This must also occur in the US, in my view, where I regard the black 
community as a distinct oppressed nation. It would further the aims of white workers 
to work for the liberation of their black brothers and sisters and accept the 
necessity of their lead in any principled revolutionary movement. 

In short, white workers must accept responsibility as a group for the 
oppression suffered by minorities at home and workers and oppressed peoples in the 
developing world.


You also wrote:

What about the Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites today.  Couldn't one or the
other be adopted as the demonic group (the white workers) in their
country.  Maybe the Sunnis, because of their history of benefiting in
identifiable material ways (including the workers) from the oppression
of the Kurds and Shias.  Or, perhaps more popular on the far left today,
the Kurds and Shias because of the way their leaders maneuver with US
imperialism to try to correct and quite possibly reverse the traditional
relations between the Sunnis and their traditional victims..


Reply:

The tribal tensions which exist in every oppressed nation, from Ireland to 
the Balkans to the Middle East to Africa and India, can be traced back to the 
well worn and effective colonial practise of divide and rule. After all, today's 
map of the Middle East was originally drawn by European imperialists and 
today is being reinforced by their US counterpart. This, again, is why the 
priority must be in doing that which will hasten destruction of the US Empire, 
currently the common enemy of all mankind. 

End imperialist economic and/or military occupation and you go a long way to 
ending tribal and ethnic tensions throughout the developing world.

Finally, there seems to be a morbid obsession and fixation with the US SWP on 
this list. It really has become tedious reading reference after reference to 
the Militant. I wonder if the SWP pays as much attention to you as you do to 
them. If you left, or were kicked out of the Party, I respectfully advise that 
you find a way to move on as quickly and painlessly as possible. Otherwise, 
much of what you contribute will merely continue to sound like the rankings of a 
spurned lover. 

I have never read the Militant, so am unable to reply to your specific 
comments on that score, but like I said, I think that for the purposes of this 
exchange the Militant and the SWP are irrelevant.

   
JoeD



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