[Marxism] A clarification on Peronism, Zionism and Socialism

rrubinelli rrubinelli at earthlink.net
Tue Apr 12 08:48:17 MDT 2005

I am flattered that the busy Mr. Gorojovsky has found time in his crowded schedule
to provide another bon mot, clarifying nothing as usual, but certainly bringing him
another measure of self-satisfaction.  And self-satisfaction seems to be what the Mr.
Gorojovsky is mostly about. 

But pleasantries to one side for the time being, Joaquin raised the issue of an
idealistic essence to my analysis of nationalism because I view it, nationalism,
as non-revolutionary despite the class origin of the desire, the ideology, for
a "nation."

But that is not my view.  My view is rather that the "national" moment is determined
in the historical conditions of an emerging struggle between development and property. 

The lack of a developed national capitalism, developed domestic market,
developed relations between city and countryside, brings forth, evokes so to speak,
a desire, anticipation, even imagined memory of such a modern state.  And this
occurs precisely because and when the lack of development is itself the critical element
of modern capitalism.   

JB asks me if the Cuban people are wrong to think of their struggle as a patriotic struggle.
I think it's a dangerous business making assessments as to what "the masses believe" and 
whether those beliefs are right or wrong.  I know I'm not very good at that.

I do know that what people believe changes.  So I might answer JB's questions with other
questions:  When black Americans believed their struggle was for full integration into
American "democracy,"  when they thought the struggle was for civil rights,  for equal
protection under the law, where they right or wrong?  

In the late 1960s in the counties of Northern Ireland, when the introduction of British "peace-
keepers" was accepted, and welcomed by some, by the Catholic population, where they 
right or wrong?

During WW2 when the people of Russia thought they were engaged in a great patriotic struggle,
allied with the progressive forces of the world, were they right or wrong?

Like I said it's a tough business.  The point is that the terms of the emerging struggle are not
adequate for the expression, development, fulfillment of the real social forces at the source.

National sovereignty is one of those emerging, but inadequate terms.

JB refers to movements appearing as movements of national salvation.  Where? I ask. 
The movements are generally precipitated by actions affecting the standards of living, including
the basic thing called caloric intake, like removal of subsidies on fuel, food, etc; the dis-
possession of the rural population, the disruption of traditional agriculture and village economies
by the expansion and development of more industrialized clusters and processes in light industries
like textiles, or even agriculture itself; farming for export; etc.

Certainly the movement in Chile during the Allende years was not organized or precipitated as a
movement for national salvation.  Nor was the revolutionary struggle in Venezuela precipitated by
a need for "national salvation."  Moreover, as galvanizing as the idea for a "nation" may be, 
the nationalism itself is inadequate to the tasks of the social struggle.  We should not be in 
the habit of praising, uncritically the "national" "revolutionary" triumph of so-called wars for 
national liberation without including in that assessment was has occurred, world-historically, in
the last twenty years, unwinding those triumphs.  

Authority and credit include responsibility for consequences.  To posit revolutionary nationalism
as the path forward when the immediate history of such nationalism has been the decay of
revolution, the increasing stratification of the revolutionary national societies,
and the strengthening of trends towards capitalist restoration, is at very best an incomplete


-----Original Message-----
From: Nestor Gorojovsky <nestorgoro at fibertel.com.ar>
Sent: Apr 12, 2005 6:57 AM
To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: [Marxism] A clarification on Peronism, Zionism and Socialism


> 2.  I don't think nationalism has an essence, other than the essence
> of capital's demand for access to labor power; 

I guess Mr. Rubinelli would find it very hard to explain why do gas 
balloons fly, since of course gravity has no other essence than 
matter's demand for more matter.

Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
nestorgoro at fibertel.com.ar

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 
"Sí, una sola debe ser la patria de los sudamericanos".
Simón Bolívar al gobierno secesionista y disgregador de 
Buenos Aires, 1822
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