[Marxism] Human origin

Paul H. Dillon illonph at pacbell.net
Mon Aug 1 10:06:38 MDT 2005


Charles,

Yes, the trashcan lid example is a completely contaminated example, at a 
time when Goodall was leaving big bunches of bananas out for the chimps and 
they would "hang out" at her camp.  I cited it because of its general 
relationship to human military tactics; e.g., Shock and Awe.  The family 
resemblance of the basic idea is stiking.

The examples of chimpacide, food preferences, multiple forms of symboling, 
etc.  come from non-interventionist field studies given in the book I cited 
earlier, Bonobo chimps seem to be the most advanced in the use of symboling.

Paul


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charles Brown" <cbrown at michiganlegal.org>
To: <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:33 AM
Subject: [Marxism] Human origin


> Paul H. Dillon :
>
> Charles,
>
> I'm not familiar with the PBS special.  What's also interesting, besides 
> the
> symbolic stuff, is that chimps plan "military" actions and kill other 
> chimps
> that try to secede from the primary band with females.   I love the 
> Goodall
> footage of the chimp who figured out how to scare the other ones by 
> rolling
> trash can lids at them which made an incredibly horrible noise.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^
> CB: The presence of a trash can lid raises some concern about the level of
> intervention of humans with these chimps. How many other aspects of their
> conduct is the result of long term contact with humans , especially
> primatologists ?  Are the chimps "in the wild" of all these studies really
> all the way in the wild ?
>
> There's a real "contact" and "contamination" problem.
>
> ^^^^^
>
>
> ^^^^^
>
> My point about the human speciation issue is simply that I'm not sure what
> the question is.  A long time ago our ancestors embarked on a journey in
> which tools came to constitute the pattern of adaptation.  That went on 
> for
> a couple of million years with increasing sophistication of stone tool
> construction correlating to some degree with anatomical variation. 
> Control
>
> of fire was discovered by homo erectus approximately 1/2 million years 
> ago.
> Homo erectus isn't the same species as modern humans.  Our current species
> (homo sapiens sapiens- highly inaccurate classificatory name)
>
> ^^^^^
> CB: Yea, in my opinion , there can't be a sub-species that is not a race 
> in
> some sense. But race doesn't exist ( See C.Loring Brace, et al).
>
> ^^^^^
>
> is about
> 100,000 ya. That's about 90,000 years before agriculture. So what's the
> point?  Where do you think that first anatomically sapien sapien popped 
> out
> of the homo line?
>
> ^^^^^
> CB: This is a very good point to focus on.
>
> I'm thinking that - now here's a fuller definition - some group of 
> homonids
> discovered or invented using symbols to represent dead members of the 
> group
> and organizing the social life of the living members of the group based on
> relationships to dead , former members of the group. In other words, a
> system of kinship based in ancestors and ancestor "worship".  This group
> became an isolated population and gene pool, speciating. The rest is
> history.
>
> ^^^^^^
>
>
>  Chimps probably look at us as the species that took the
> wrong turn.
>
> Paul
>
> ^^^^
>
> CB: With nukes, it's looking like they are right.
>
>
>
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