[Marxism] Communism, anti-German criticism and Israel

rrubinelli rrubinelli at earthlink.net
Thu Aug 11 06:12:14 MDT 2005

Oh, Ed Thehappyclown-- may I call you Bozo, just to save bandwidth?

Anyway, Bozo, I think Lenin's Imperialism is a flawed an mistaken work,
and I'll match my understanding of all volumes of Capital, Theories of
Surplus Value, the Grundrisse, etc. against yours any day of the week,
and twice on Sundays (you do do matinees, don't you).

And my knowledge of Capital, and critical theory by the way tells me you
are a poseur, throwing phrases and words around with little

Support for Israel among the non-reformist left?  And is that
non-reformist left more versed in Capital and critical theory among the
crusty  old Trostskyists.  How about the council communists?  Do they
support Israel?

rr (against Bozo, against Bozoism)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Thehappyclown" <edthehappyclown at yahoo.com>
To: <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Communism, anti-German criticism and Israel

> Calvin Broadbent writes:
> "Make that a right-wing liberal pseudo-marxist
> provocateur."
> If such denunciation helps you deflect from real
> argument, be my guest.  It is, after all, only an
> email list.  But this sort of denunciation is straight
> out of a Stalinist playbook.
> You, like a thousand other alleged "Marxists," are
> some sort of activist who has read Lenin's Imperialism
> and mistakes that for having a sufficient knowledge of
> Marx's Capital.
> I don't know what the function of a "vetting
> procedure" would be on a list devoted to open
> discussion amongst Marxists.  If you are worried about
> being confronted with uncomfortable ideas which
> challenge your perceptions, perhaps it would be useful
> to hang out a warning sign of a "common basis of
> political agreement" with some sort of ten point
> program of minimal consensus.
> Otherwise, deal with the fact that Marxist is a term
> broad enough to cover political positions which are
> even diametrically opposed.  In short, grow up.  The
> world is a lot bigger than you imagine.
> I have not once in the course of discussion offered
> any sort of defense of Israeli state crimes.  Yet
> merely by entertaining a critical attitude towards
> "national liberation" struggles with anti-semitic
> elements, I have somehow become to disturbing a
> political presence.  That does not speak well for your
> debating style.  As I stated before, this kind of
> agressive rejection of reality is clinically
> psychotic.
> In the end, I think it's just indicative of the
> provincialism of the English-speaking left.  You would
> probably be psychologically unprepared for the fact
> that probably 80% of the young revolutionaries in
> German who represent the target demographic for
> Marxist ideas have positions on this issue which are
> much more Israel sympathetic than mine.  Outside of
> crusty Stalinist groups and Trotskyite rump
> formations, support for Israel is pretty much a
> consensus position in the non-reformist Left, and has
> been since the mid-90s.  I don't even go that far, yet
> am instantly denounced.
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