[Marxism] A call to order on the baiting of a list member

rrubinelli rrubinelli at earthlink.net
Sat Aug 13 18:39:28 MDT 2005

Excuse me , methinks Fred doth protest too much.  If anyone has been
doing any baiting around here, it is Walter with his references to
China-bashers, Lula-bashers, Brigada Marxmailista.. blah, blah, blah.

List participants have repeatedly asked Walter to respond to the content
of substantive, class-based criticisms of his legion of super-heroes, or
is it portfolio of clients?, only to have him respond with further
obfuscation of the issues, denial of facts, and insinuations that those
not enamored with Lula, or Mugabe, or the Chinese road to
"post-socialism." have much in common with Washington, the IMF, etc.

And Fred, true to the spin doctoring school of socialism opts not to
respond to the content of David Walters' remarks, but respond only to
the bad manners of "baiting."  Bad manners, like booing Lula is what
really gets the spin doctor socialists knickers in a twists.

But to the substance of David's remarks-- yeah, exactly, the article
Fred criticizes seems to me markedly moderate in tone, modest in
prognosis, and totally non-sectarian.

I mean what's the gripe?  Should there be no formations that think
Chavezistaism is not the only way, or perhaps even THE way?  Does Fred
not think there are tremendous conflicts within Venezuelan society that
might not be resolvable within the electoral, parliamentary, social
framework of Chavez and a 5th Republic?  If no, he should say so, and
take on those issues squarely, and forthrightly... But again no such
substantive analysis is forthcoming.

How goes the struggle in the countryside in  Venezuela now?  A struggle
we all agree is critical to the success of the socialist movement.  Is
INTI moving that struggle ahead or not?  And if not, what should be done
about that?

What about the debt accumulated under the previous regimes-- is that a
burden upon the economy, and if so, should payments be maintained or
not?  And if not, what should be done about it?

These are the concrete questions that any/every movement must deal with,
and these are the questions that certain sections of the movement, today
called ultra-left, have the temerity, and the supreme bad manners, to
deal with ahead of others.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Feldman" <ffeldman at bellatlantic.net>
To: "mxmail" <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 4:13 PM
Subject: [Marxism] A call to order on the baiting of a list member

>I think list members, including the list owner, need to get a grip on
> this NOW.
> I think the next time David or anyone else feels tempted to drag this
> kind of baiting into a debate with someone else on another topic, he

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