[Marxism] John Holloway-Alex Callinicos debate

erkal ünal erdemgunacan at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 17 11:48:54 MDT 2005

 Yes, it is true, we might get Stalin even if we do seize the existing state, one can not guarantee it, but just strive to overcome it; yet Stalin's emergence can not be ascribed to the aim of seizuring the existing state and using it, by changing its form, for the interests of the working class and the downtrodden. Your basis for opposition to the arguement of Callinicos is quite rhetorical too, I should say. Holloway's are so too.

Calvin Broadbent <calvinbroadbent at hotmail.com> wrote:Er, wasn't Stalin the product of a mass movement that seized the state and 
radically altered its character? In other words, we might get Stalin even if 
we do sezie the existing state. A lot of Callinicos' analyses are quite 


>This means we cannot simply try to seize the existing state. If we seize 
>the existing state, in the >end, at the worst we will get Stalin, at best 
>we will get someone like Lula or Mbeki in South Africa >who comes out of a 
>mass movement which seeks to change the world but ends up administering 
> >things for capitalism.

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