[Marxism] Buying off the German people
cbrown at michiganlegal.org
Fri Mar 25 13:42:20 MST 2005
M. Junaid Alam:
Actually Charles, I think your analytical attempt to conflate American
imperialism with fascism contains exactly the same flaw as that of
conflating Democrats with Republicans. It is a kind of moral protest against
the crisis we face but misunderstands the nature of the crisis.
CB: What in I said suggests a moral protest ? Or misunderstanding of "the"
crisis ? My discussion has been confined to comparing the U.S. with
accepted historical examples of fascism.
I just thought of the comparison to Dems/Reps and threw it in there. I
wouldn't make too much of it.
As was the main point in my theoretical piece on the DP, the main problem
with the DP from the standpoint of social change is *not* the "lack of
difference" from Republicans- it the precise *nature* of the *presence* of
difference. That is to say, what matters is the specific ways and modes in
Democratic differences with Republicans enable conservatism. So here,
it may feel good to morally condemn the Democrats as being as bad as
the Republicans, but that actually concedes too much ground to what
the DP is intrinsically.
Similarly, condemning Americanism as fascism is too kind a compliment to
CB: That will be hard to demonstrate.
And this is precisely why liberals call Bush a fascist - remember, these are
people who have been mocking socialists for attacking capitalism as evil.
Now all of a sudden they are characterizing the leading section of
capitalism in power as the epitome of evil. This should give pause for
thought among serious thinkers. What is going on here? Hyperbolic
condemnation of Bush becomes an excuse for Democrats themselves being so
CB: Maybe, but our "job" is to make an assessment independently of liberals.
Where all this matters is, again, understanding how Americanism functions.
Let's be honest with ourselves here. People being blacklisted from Hollywood
is not the same thing as being thrown into an oven.
CB: How about comparisons to Italian fascism, where people weren't thrown
Do you say Italy was fascist under the Fascists ?
2 people being executed for
spying for another country, one of whom the evidence now shows was partially
guilty on that charge, is hardly comparable to Dachau. It is ridiculous to
say we are talking about the same phenomenon at work.
CB: You might want to go back and read what I said. You are "conflating"
"fascism" with "Nazism".
On the other hand, the international principle of law against waging war on
other countries which the U.S.A. is in violation of in its war in Iraq
originated at Nuremberg. It is a Crime Against Peace, basically the
violation of the modern "First Commandment" .
Americanism doesn't need government-funded and trained Gestapo. The system
produces more voluntary agents of thuggery, like Daniel Pipes and O'Reilly
and Ann Coulter and their hordes of minions. The real people at the top
don't share the attitudes and prejudices of the kind of people who gravitate
to Fox News.
CB: How do you know that ?
They just spread the bile to get other people to support them. This became
eminently clear to me when I read through that Defense Science Board
document I posted to this list under the title "Imperialists Agree with
Our Analysis of Terror War."
I got an e-mail not 5 minutes ago from some guy who looked at the
Left Hook bio page, noticed my name and my co-editor Derek Seidman's, and
blasted me for being an "Arab nigger/nigger Arab" working with a "damned
Jew", etc. Is he working for some massive fascist bureaucracy? Highly
unlikely. The hate behind this kind of sentiment is in the noxious social
air without the need for a government-directed totalitarian respiratory
CB: This incident does not quite clearly support your side of the argument
here that the US is not in danger of fascism.
Nazism is too crude and uncomplicated a model to serve as any basis for
We have to confront and understand Americanism, instead of drawing up
what is really going on based on what happened in Germany 55 years ago just
because it feels good.
CB: This is not a scientific approach. Of course, we use all historical
exmaples in assessming the present.
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