[Marxism] Kyrgyzstan 'Regime Change' Masterminded By West

Louis Proyect lnp3 at panix.com
Thu Mar 31 10:26:20 MST 2005


At 01:27 AM 3/31/2005, David Quarter wrote:
>  Lou,
>
>there is novel idea that says, you can support a state militarily in the 
>face of attack
>without necessarily agreeing with its politics..if I were to follow your 
>rationale I would
>have abondoned China, Cuba and perhaps even Chavez's Venezuela ages ago...

Your biggest problem (and Rozoff, Yarker et al) is that you rely too 
heavily on crosspostings from the bourgeois press. If you made your own 
arguments and drew upon the bourgeois press to back them up, it would be 
one thing. However, you all have the same really bad habit as Michael 
Pugliese which is to serve up some undigested and controversial item from 
the bourgeois press and expect it to speak for itself. One of the reasons I 
unsubbed from leftist-trainspotters is that I got sick and tired of trying 
to reply to the underlying, implicit arguments of such postings by Pugliese 
when he himself couldn't muster a 3 or 4 sentence defense of his own ideas. 
Obviously, he has shitty reformist politics, but it is just as unhelpful 
when people like you resort to the same method.

>You can always get our your pons pons out and cheer for the "peace" from the
>sidelines, no one;s stopping you..You can also pretend (quite 
>disingenuously) that
>what's clearly taking place as far as the U.S. going around overthrowing 
>gov. after
>gov. in eastern europe (although this is happening all the world) and 
>encircling
>Russia is all a figment of someone's imagination and then, as you quite 
>recently did,
>have an about face when the evidence becomes so overwhelmingly and
>aknowledge (albeit dismiss the significance of, as you now do) the 
>consequences
>this holds for the world..

Let's be clear about something. I am absolutely opposed to the NED, the 
CIA, Soros-backed foundations interfering in internal politics any place in 
the world. My writings on Yugoslavia should have made that clear a long 
time ago. However, this does not mean that I automatically take up the 
cause of any government that is being confronted by an opposition that is 
getting aid from such quarters. For example, I don't give an ounce of 
political support for Robert Mugabe even though the opposition in Zimbabwe 
is clearly being backed by imperialism. Nor would I support Ayakev or 
Putin. The problem with crossposting articles exclusively about 
destabilization efforts directed by the CIA and omitting any references to, 
for example, Akayev's long-standing ties to such sources of destabilization 
is that you are not providing a serious political analysis. The left has no 
business solidarizing with the Akayev and Putins of the world.

>It's especially disingenious that you do this now in light of all
>you've been arguing  at Marx mail for the past two years on the  topic of 
>Russia, its
>former satellites and the caucasuses...And then not to outdo your previous 
>chutpatz
>you slam me, again, and, in your usual cowardly manner, Rick -- agan 
>--  (someone
>who isn't even a member of this list) for posting of this U.S. regime 
>change as if to
>say that what's happening in eastern europe has no bearing for the rest of 
>the world,
>and specificlaly the working classes,, the poor, the oppressed?...

Why don't you do yourself a favor and lay off crossposting Rozoff's stuff 
for a couple of months or so. Take the time to develop your own ideas and 
spell them out. That would be helpful in terms of deepening the debate.

>Obviously a
>unipolar world order at the direction of the U.S. is for you no different 
>to a world
>polarized on the one hand by U.S. and western capital and on the other 
>hand by a
>motly alliance of oppressed nations and states currently under attack by 
>the U.S and
>Western europe.: Russia/China/Indian/Iranian/Cuban/Venezuelan/Bellarussia,
>etc......

But there are multiple contradictions. Rightwing elements in the USA, 
George Soros, et al are opposed to the invasion and occupation of Chechnya. 
Does this mean that we should support it? Just because imperialism says X, 
our role is not to say not-X. Marxism has a more nuanced approach to such 
questions and should be able to deal with multiple contradictions.

Louis Proyect
Marxism list: www.marxmail.org 





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