[Marxism] Hmpf! Dialectics? Yes.

www.leninology. blogspot.com leninology at hotmail.com
Thu May 12 00:45:34 MDT 2005


Inasmuch as Hegelian conceptual operations facilitated Marx's project in the 
first place, I concede that he created the conditions of possibility of 
Marxism.  To this extent, I am not arguing that we should simply ignore 
Hegel - we simply have to work through him, discarding as Marx did that 
which is useless, rather than taking a religious attitude to it.  But I'd be 
interested to know a) what 'dialectical logic' is, b) why this is essential 
to understanding Capital, c) what you think "consciousness" is, and d) why 
you think that seeing this thing as a social product dissolves the 
identity/equality confusion in Trotsky's writing?

>From: "Paul H. Dillon" <illonph at pacbell.net>
>Reply-To: Activists and scholars in Marxist 
>tradition<marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
>To: "Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition" 
><marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Marxism] Hmpf!  Dialectics?  Yes.
>Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 18:01:28 -0700
>
>I don't see how Marxist theory is possible without the concept of the 
>dialectic.  Dialectical logic, as Ilyenkov rigorously demonstrated, guides 
>all of the central analyses of Capital Vol. 1.   Marxist theory without the 
>dialectic is like a carriage without a horse although not the other way 
>around.    Marx's appropriation of dialectical logic and his use of it to 
>analyze the historical genesis of value didn't abandon the notion that 
>consciousness (not simply abstract objects of consciousness) is a social 
>product.  Once this is realized, the identity/equality problem disappears. 
>Ilyenkov and later Mikhailov (both available in the MIA archive) are two 
>excellent philosophers who have picked up Lenin's challenge to all marxists 
>to study Hegel's Logic, indicating that a full understanding of Capital was 
>impossible without such preparation.
>
>Paul Dillon
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Nestor Gorojovsky" 
><nestorgoro at fibertel.com.ar>
>To: <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:46 PM
>Subject: [Marxism] Hmpf! Dialectics? Yes.
>
>
>Respuesta a:"Marxism Digest, Vol 19, Issue 33"
>Enviado por:marxism-request at lists.econ.utah.edu
>Con fecha:11 May 2005, a las 12:00
>
>>I agree with that broad analysis, but surely we can dispense with the
>>language of 'dialectics'?
>>
>>For instance, you describe the 'contradictions' of US society, but
>>contradictions involve two propositions which make one another
>>impossible. There aren't contradictions in reality, only conflicts,
>>interfaces of struggle and tension.
>>
>
>I am afraid I can't, because I don't believe formal logic to be
>adequate (enough) for things human or historical.
>
>
>
>Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
>nestorgoro at fibertel.com.ar
>
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>"La patria tiene que ser la dignidad arriba y el regocijo abajo".
>Aparicio Saravia
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>
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