[Marxism] After the oil is gone

Jon Flanders jonflanders at jflan.net
Sat May 14 20:03:41 MDT 2005


Mark Jones answered you more than once while he was with us.

We don't need to rehash these arguments again here. In my opinion.

Jon Flanders


On Sat, 2005-05-14 at 18:45 -0400, rrubinelli wrote:
> I'm not sure that the moderator ascribes to the peak oil theory as one
> of his own beliefs, but be that as it may, we've been down this road
> before.  Since the moderator has reproduced the latest "sky is falling"
> from salon.com, I guess it's  OK to go down it one mo' time.
> 
> But....Mark Jones's analysis is interesting because it is radically
> unMarxist, locating the critical fracture not in a conflict between
> means and relations of production, not between output and profit, but in
> eternal immutable geology.
> 
> OK, fair enough, but geology leaves a whole  host of questions
> unanswered...like how come prices react to an event 20, 30 years in the
> future, when markets are functioning precisely to apportion profits here
> and now?  Or why didn't they react 20 years ago to the event that is
> happening right now?  Like how can we go from over-supply to shortage
> overnight?  Like how come the latest concern is the overproduction of
> LNG due to the coming online of processing plants in Qatar (see WSJ of
> 0513) when the hydrocarbon scarcity theorists have been warning about
> the depletion of gas supplies.
> 
> Darwin, unlike Hubbert and the Hubbertists, did NOT make any social
> determinations from his study of natural science. But the peak oil
> theorists do nothing but make social determinations, while denying their
> determinations are anything but natural science.
> 
> Oil is not finches.  Oil exists as an object, but it exists socially
> only as an expropriated value.  Darwin had enough sense to know his
> limitations.  The new social Darwinists, dressed up in Hubbert's
> clothes, don't have that sense.
> 
> As the head of the Colorado School of Mines' Hubbert Center wrote: "Oil
> companies don't have the slightest interest in producing oil.  Their
> concern is making money."
> 
> Follow the cash.
> 
> rr
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <g.maclennan at qut.edu.au>
> To: "Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition"
> <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] After the oil is gone
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > rrubinelli wrote:
> >
> > Why is it that none of these peak oil theorists are Marxists?
> >
> > Jon replied:
> >
> > Nonsense. Mark Jones.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not to mention our good Moderator Lou Proyect.  But the real
> > point is that non-Marxists eg Darwin can advacne knowledge
> > and Marxists should read and use them.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Marxism mailing list
> > Marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu
> > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism
> 
> 
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> 





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