[Marxism] Re: Class struggle

Tony Hartin t.hartin at qmul.ac.uk
Tue Nov 29 03:31:56 MST 2005

>>Tom O'Lincoln:
>>The issue was whether it's "anti-Marxist" to think there could be class
>>struggle in the early days of the Russian Revolution.

> Lou wrote
>I don't care what Lenin said. How do you like them apples.
>There was no capitalist class in Russia shortly after 1917 and the 
>consolidation of Soviet power. The notion of a capitalist class is tied up 
>with the ownership of the means of production like in the USA. I am just 

In my (possibly naieve) view, things like the state and class struggle take time to 
wither away. In Russia the capitalist class may not have owned the means of production any more, 
but neither was it owned communally. Rather the state owned on behalf of/in partnership with 
the working class. The working class didn't cease to exist overnight, did it? 
So the workers state is squeezed internationally and cannot always do everything 
the working class wants, so the working class still (sometimes) has interests that run 
counter to the workers state. But It wont be resolved until, for instance in the case of Cuba, 
US economic blockades cease to exist.

>Lou again
>Anyhow, if you want to believe that there was a class struggle in the 
>Soviet Union when the bureaucracy owned virtually nothing, be my guest. 
>Just don't be obstreperous about it and don't bang on about it for weeks. 

Thats a bit unfair. Tom hardly spends more than 3 or 4 exchanges on any issue and 
I've always found his posts thought provoking and good humoured


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