[Marxism] The immigration thread
ian at ianpace.com
Thu Oct 6 11:55:29 MDT 2005
From: "kersplebedeb" <info at kersplebedeb.com>
[stuff written in error snipped]
> i mean there were fascist elements within the anti-German resistance in at
> least France and Poland during World War II, within Italy itself there was
> a fascist revolt against Mussolini, and today the European far right has
> vacillated between backing far-right Arab and Jewish elements in the
> Middle East (tending to prefe the former over the latter).
This has been an issue on the British far-right as well, who I believe are
caught in a bind between whether to support 'Jews against Muslims' or
'Muslims against Jews'. Considering the hideously anti-semitic background of
this movement, the fact that they now place an article in the Jewish
Chronicle, arguing in essence why they hate Muslims so much that the
hard-line Zionists should support them, and even have a Jewish councillor,
shows how grotesque nationalism can become in this day and age. Even if the
term 'fascist' isn't literally applicable, Louis's comments suggest that
far-right Muslim elements are inconsequential. I don't believe they are. I
also don't believe that only Zionists should worry about the propagation of
anti-semitic literature and propaganda by the ruling classes in Arab
countries is something we can ignore, either.
Once again, I feel romantic third-world nationalism leads some on the left
to disregard class distinctions outside of the Western world.
> so even if your (demonstrably untrue) suggestion that the United States is
> fascist were correct, this would by no means mean that anybody who opposed
> the United States was necessarily "anti-fascist"
> but as anybody who has studied the U.S. far right knows (and knew long
> before Timothy McVeigh broke the news to the rest of us) most fascists,
> includnig most fascists in the united states, are firmly anti-American.
> Ever since its "5th era" even the conservative KKK has seen itself as an
> enemy of the state...
> for a better appraisal of what fascism is and why it is often
> anti-imperialist, people may be interested in checking out J. Sakai's /The
> Shock of Recognition/, on my site at
At some point soon I'll write something for Marxmail giving my own thoughts
on these subjects, particularly with respect to some ultra-leftists who've
shifted to the far right (in particular Pierre Guillaume). To dismiss the
anti-imperialist and anti-bourgeois elements of fascism is to fail to
understand some of its nature. At the very least, fascism tries to drive a
wedge between different sectors of the bourgoisie. Bordiga argued this was
at the root of Nazi anti-semitism, one section of the bourgeoisie turning on
another so as to preserve bourgeois power by diminishing its numbers and
prevent the bourgeoisie's 'proletarianisation' - I'm not necessarily
agreeing with Bordiga here, I'll write more about this (and the links
between his arguments about appropriation of the Holocaust and those of
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