[Marxism] Cardinal says Castro told him pope welcome to visitCuba(CNS) - Going backwards Too Many Steps!

John Obrien causecollector at msn.com
Sun Oct 23 15:05:02 MDT 2005


Yep things are just getting terrific for Cuban Gays and Lesbians - and I am sure they will all want to be part of the welcoming of the fuhrer's former defender and now current pope.  Of course, we must ignore the new pope's actions and declarations against ALL gays and Lesbians - and understand "what is important" - and "why Cuba's Gays and Lesbians will just have to wait - a "little longer" - or "endure more attacks from the pope - that will likely come" - is the least that can be expected - from such great improvements, that just keep coming (unless of course you are speaking of actual empowerment, equality, freedom and dignity - which has not happened in Cuba)

To understand the point more clearly..........

I guess when the nazis came recently to Toledo, it was important to challenge them - but when a member of the Nazi party - now pope, wants to travel to an area that he also "looks down on" - he should be welcomed?  The twists and turns  - for defending this logic, as "tactical" and not a violation of "principle" - seems to be twisting some people very far - from their own principles!!!  

Attacks on Gays, Lesbians are not serious and something not needing to be immediately addressed....they will just have to wait.... that is the message being delivered.

Oh by the way - how are the four boys mentioned below -  who in 2001 took vows of love for each other - doing these days? Are they active leaders of the Cuban CP or hold important government posts?  As for Reynaldo Garcia holding hands in Havana - I hold hands in Los Angeles - but I hardly would state it was safe and without the real possibility of physical attack!

As for quoting David McReynolds as to what the situation in Cuba was for him and why the pope should be welcomed - is silly.  I have know David McReynolds for over 40 years - and he never has been a member of a Gay activist group. He also has few contacts among Cuban Gays and knows nothing (apparently) as a left tourist who does not have to live under the daily fears many Gays and Lesbians do in "being discovered" and then discriminated against.  I like Dave McReynolds personally but disagreed with him politically in 1965 when the U. S. invaded the Dominican Republic and he thought that the Left was wrong, for denouncing that invasion and the government that followed - from his own observations then!!

Do we find more "Gay tourists remarks" as the justification for these friendly remarks by Fidel Castro for the pope - an avowed enemy of socialism - all Gays and Lesbians and uppity Women?

For this the pope should be welcome?

John O'Brien


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Louis Proyect<mailto:lnp3 at panix.com> 
  To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition<mailto:marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu> 
  Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:26 PM




  On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, John Obrien wrote:

  > "Building a Civilization of Solidarity", "face of A Good Angel", "Castro 
  > paid tribute to John Paul II and said he was favorably impressed by the 
  > new pope".
  >
  > This sounds very similar to those apologists at the time of the 
  > Hitler-Stalin Pact, in justifying that mistake.
  >
  > To those who consider Gay, Lesbian and Women rights important - and not 
  > to be "put aside" - this email continues to say a great deal about "what 
  > is and is not important"!
  >

  The Atlanta Journal and Constitution (March 19, 1995) reported:

  Because he was gay, Reynaldo Garcia once was ostracized as a member of La 
  Escoria, the official Cuban government term for homosexuals, convicts and 
  the mentally ill. It means the scum.

  Now Garcia can do something he never dreamed would be possible  walk hand 
  in hand down the streets of Havana with his lover of six years without 
  fear of reprisal.

  I never thought I would see this day. Its a beautiful feeling, Garcia 
  said. I feel like people are starting to see us as human beings, like 
  anyone else. Cuba is backing away from years of discrimination against 
  homosexuals. Once packed off to work on rural farms alongside dissidents 
  and religious Cubans, or nudged into exile, gays have entered a period of 
  tolerance.

  =

  Bill Berkowitz
  WORKINGFORCHANGE July 13, 2001

  Viva gay Cuba! Out and married in the increasingly tolerant Communist 
  island

  Cabral writes that while 
  their relatives quietly witnessed, and the neighbors gawked, exercising 
  their curiosity, two gay male couples made history by publicly holding a 
  gay wedding. Four local boys, Michel and Angel, and Juanito and Alejandro, 
  ranging in ages from 17 to 22, exchanged symbolic vows before their 
  families and friends at a neighborhood recreation center in one of the 
  poorest sections of San Miguel del Padron, a working-class suburb 
  southeast of Havana.

  Full: http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=11550<http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=11550>

  =

  David McReynolds:

  Homosexual life. As a homosexual, let me not dodge this. I am told there 
  are gay bars in Havana. I didnt ask to go at 71, bars are not that 
  exciting, no matter where they are. (Doubly so for alcoholics who no 
  longer drink!). Yes, a young teen age boy tried to pick me up. At least I 
  think he did his English was not working and my Spanish is very poor. I 
  assume there is prostitution. You cant sell tourists on the idea that 
  Havana has a hot night life and lots of beautiful women (and men) without 
  seeing a revival of the sex trade. But are homosexuals repressed? I dont 
  think so. I was visiting one evening with a gay man who works with the 
  government who asked if I had seen Gay Cuba. I hadnt, he had a copy and 
  put it in his VCR. It was a good video it documented the genuine 
  repression which had existed not so long ago, and then the sharp change in 
  government policy.

  Full: http://www.cc-ds.org/Cuba/mcreynolds.htm<http://www.cc-ds.org/Cuba/mcreynolds.htm>





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