[Marxism] Re: Another Chavez or another Lula

Juan Carlos juancarloscruz at hotmail.com
Thu Jan 5 19:16:25 MST 2006

I agree, and that's why i don't like puritans and utopians, i like realists 
a lot more. Politics like every activity is inmoral, like Billy Joel in a 
song said: "You're only human, you're supposed to make mistakes" i mean Evo 
Morale's new government will have corruption because all governments all 
states all centralized powers are corrupted and I accept corruption as part 
of reality, because we cannot escape reality.  That would make us nihilists 
u know people who poke their eyes out cuz they dont wanna see the world.

I know that Fidel, Chavez, and all socialist governments have committed many 
mistakes but their goals are not to enrich a little sector of society while 
AS OPPOSED TO neoliberal government's goals are indeed to put a lot of money 
in multinational corporations

Juan Carlos

From: "Fred Feldman" <ffeldman at bellatlantic.net>
Reply-To: Activists and scholars in Marxist 
tradition<marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
To: <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
Subject: [Marxism] Re: Another Chavez or another Lula
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:46:26 -0500
Why is this thread continuing? This kind of speculation when Morales
has hardly spent a week in office becomes truly bizarre as it drags on.
I know I have said all I have to say at this point. I await the
judgement of the facts,

Everyone will have to adapt to the facts, whatever they turn out to be.
in Morales turns out to be "another Lula" then those of us who hoped
for or expected better will have to recognize the fact, keeping in minf
that there is also a debate about what a Lula (or a Kirchner or
whatever) isa, and what our stance should be toward such should

If Morales turns out as I would like, well, then those revolutionists
who try to deny the reality will pay a heavy price.
So far, comrades like Dave Walters have declined to pay that kind of
price in full in the case of Chavez, and hopefully they will decide not
to go down with the sectarian ship in order to maintain a factional
posture toward Morales.

Frankly, the activists in discussion on this list mostly have a
sectarian origin, and the discussion we are going through is one we have
to go through and part of our contribution to the possibility of a
broader revolutionary convergence.

Overall, in this discussion, Dave Walters' motion and alertness to
reality place him and everyone else on this discussion on a much higher
plane than the embittered and burned-out James Petras who, whatever
happens to Morales, is simply finished as commentator or analyst of any
value on these events. When I say, everyone on this list is better I
mean everyone -- including rrubinelli. this year's winner of the
coveted Proyect Prize for Peace.

Petras has deteriorated so badly in the face of the developments in
Latin America that his basic stance today is, if anything, worse than it
was when he started out as a supporter of the Castrophobic
Robertson-Wohlforth grouping in the SWP in the early 60s. He seems
driven by personal bitterness, resentment, anger at those who disagree
with him, and factional rage. His tirades against the leftist
"bandwagon" remind me of the tirades against against "middle-class
radicals": that used to pour out of the Healyites and are now part of
the stock and trade of the Socialist Workers Party US.

His bandwagon is rolling down hill and I urge Dave Walters and others to
give it a wide berth as it gains momentum.
Fred Feldman

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