[Marxism] How to answer these questions?

dwalters at marxists.org dwalters at marxists.org
Mon Jul 31 12:05:15 MDT 2006

Yoshie states:

> You can't propose a purely hypothetical test that is impossible to
> apply in reality and hope it to convince those who aren't already
> convinced.

It's not hypothetical Yoshie, its historical. It's based on every occupying
power and / or colonial settler-state. Everyone one: absolute hatred for
everything the Settlers stand for. Do you believe that the Zionism/Israeli
sentiment expressed by many in the Arab world is motivated by anti-Semitism or
do you believe it's motivated by, at least objectively,

> The test that we can actually apply would be to see if individuals
> and organizations make relevant distinctions, between Zionism and
> Judaism, Israelis and Jews, etc. or refuse to do so and hold all Jews
> responsible for actions of the Tel Aviv-Washington axis.  Those who
> do the latter must be criticized, even if they are members of
> oppressed nations.

At test for what Yoshie? An anti-'racist' clause in their right to fight against
Israel? Did you hold the extreme anti-White sentiment of the Black Consciousness
movement in S. Africa to the same criteria? I'm not sure there is a difference

> Deliberate or inadvertent confusion of anti-Zionism and anti-Jewish
> hatred must be combated, but we can't combat it efficaciously if we
> defend the indefensible, for we lose credibility we need to combat
> the confusion.

I think we have to admit it is there, and deal with it, in this I agree. But, it
not the same as fighting Zionism and supporting and defending those that do.

> When the fight against the Tel Aviv-Washington axis will end in a
> victory for the Palestinians and other Arabs, will they be able to
> live with Jews and vice versa?  After all, a majority of Israeli Jews
> and their ancestors did not originally come from Europe -- they are
> Jews who came from various places in the Middle East, like Iraq,
> Iran, Egypt, etc.  Forthright criticism of actually-existing anti-
> Semitism not only will help the Palestinians in resistance but also
> will help the Palestinians, as well as Jews, live lives after the
> occupation -- hard as it may be to imagine them now -- in peace.

I don't have an answer to your first question. I know it will have to be a
*democratic* solution respecting the rights of all with the understanding that
the *Arab majority will rule*. That's why a democratic and secular solution is
the only one that will work. But that solution may only work if a significant
minority of Jews break with Zionism. If not they will be repressed, as any
racist and settler community will be repressed. The second part of your
paragraph is irrelevant, I think. That most Israeli Jews are of Arab or
non-European origin is very true. In fact, the original settlers from the 1950s
who came from Morocco and other Arab countries spoke only Arabic. But, like poor
whites in the US south, they were and are, some of the most vicious anti-Arab
racists in Israel, partly in response to their position in society, partly as a
result of the way they were treated in the Arab countries. However, their
children do not mostly speak Arabic anymore, speaking Hebrew and English like
most Israelis. This is even true not for the 1 million Russians who emigrated
to Israel in the last 15 years.


This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

More information about the Marxism mailing list