[Marxism] re: I'm not convinced that Blacks are a nation within the US nation

Marvin Gandall marvgandall at videotron.ca
Mon Mar 6 08:36:00 MST 2006

I found the related discussion on Latin America very useful, but am I alone
in thinking this one is very abstract? If and when the black population opts
for a party aiming at the formation of an independent state on the territory
of what is presently the US, the issue would be very widely debated - to say
the least. Or are there are more immediate issues arising out of whether the
black population is presently seen as a nation or a caste which I and others
may be missing?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rohan Gaiswinkler" <rohanger at yahoo.com.au>
To: <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:38 AM
Subject: [Marxism] re: I'm not convinced that Blacks are a nation within the
US nation

>I have absolutely no interest in telling Black people in the US, or
>anywhere, how they should conduct their struggle and I have no wish to
>oppose Black self-determination.
>  I just don't follow this line of logic:
>  Black people see themselves as a people.
>  Therefore they are a nation (subjectively)
>  Therefore their liberation requires a national struggle for political
> control of the South of the US.
>  Here is an alternative line:
>  "Black people are an oppressed race, a people whose oppression is central
> to the American experience in every way (historically, strategically,
> economically, politically, culturally) a people whose struggle is central
> to the overthrow of capitalism, a people who will not find liberation
> until capitalism is overthrown.  (While having nothing to do with the idea
> of subordinating the Black struggle into the class struggle)"
>  What is so wrong with it?  Is it not a contender with the "a nation,
> subjectively" line?
>  I am really trying to keep an open mind on this, but I can't help
> thinking that socialism is a superior path for liberation than seperatism.
> Yes it's not my call in that it's something for Blacks in the US to decide
> on, not me.  I just haven't found Fred and Joaquin's arguments very
> convincing on this issue.
>  Cheers
>  Rohan G.

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